Saturday, November 14, 2009

What Is Fair ?

Fantastic post by Hopi I had much to say and this is an edit :

Tax credits are paid for by working people and their children under threat of imprisonment . It has been delivered incompetently ,encourages fraud and pushes down minimum wages . Frank Field called it ,“Last throw of the politics of central control“. and said “ The effect of Gordon Brown’s reforms has been to create a degree of dependency among the working population hitherto unknown “,and ….,“ No free society can function when very large sections of the working population are imprisoned in a welfare system that their own efforts make little difference to their income “ .Why did your hero Tony Blair have such faith in this ‘misguided’ man , got a point no ?
Relative poverty would ultimately justify throwing wealth in the sea whilst only maintaining the real value of benefits We are getting quickly more equal now , happy ? Still happy about ‘sacrificing growth’ your words ? Ta for that .
You read across from Thatcher to Blair if that`s ok why not from Callaghan to Thatcher . Would the poor would have benefited from our continuing towards East German perfection . Say what you like about the Stasi they really did have equality there and full employment , probably made the trains run on time .
“Fair” is a pious platitude without agreed responsibilities between specified parties .When did we agree , and who is “we“ ? . If those duties are less limitless as you seem to , then massive redistribution follows until you either run out of other peoples money or 20th century .Are “we “ ,the Sudanese , everyone ,my children , future generations , the English ? . You draw the line along a fragmented electoral area, I emphasise my family more and outwards with weakening ties , which is fair , which is licensed robbery ?
You redistribute from South to North , England to Scotland , Private Sector to Public Sector , Everyone else to Unionised workers , Successful to failing ,working to idle, Future to Present ..(as well as healthy to sick and everyone to the destitute which I agree with ),. If you rob Peter to pay Paul Paul will vote for you but it has nothing to do with fair .
Perhaps the rich ought to behave charitably , they often do , but Mayfair is a ‘contemptible stereotype ‘. Your problem The working-class home owning private sector Southern self employed man and family.. They make sacrifices not you, you do rather nicely out of it .
Granting that redistribution is otherwise neutral *holds nose* , Is this a reasonable summary ?
Conservative - Good safety net not as good for those failing but just above. Plenty to aspire to
Labour - Good safety net but even better for those failing above that level . Commensurately worse , at least , for anyone above the failure zone or who aspires to be in it .
“Workers Unite” a could win an election once “Losers Unite “ cannot that is the problem New labour was supposed to solve. You are a Brownie now Hopi , twist around and vanish …..?


electro-kevin said...

What is fair ?

It's simply this: For a country to survive - much less thrive - it needs to encourage its best to give their best.

electro-kevin said...

... and to do so by the most expedient means possible in this time of economic emergency.

Newmania said...

True dat

electro-kevin said...

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before but had once failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.

The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

Could not be any simpler than that.

What a profound short little paragraph that says it all

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for,that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

~ Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931

(emailed to me by Hitch)

Bill Quango MP said...

I wonder if that economics story is true.

My two favs are 'Someone being rich is not making some else poor.'


The rich should pay more in taxes!

"The rich do. 40% of a large amount is more than 40% of a smaller amount"

Newmania said...

I .like that Ek however it is hardly true that all earnings are worked for

What bothers me more BQ is the fragmenting of society I see , it threatens actual order without nothing can be done.
The story those comments have reminded me of is this . A Duke whose glorious ancestral home is a famous delight was strolling around his grounds one day when the village blacksmith , a brute of man ambled up and told him he was now a socialist and wanted his share of the house. The Duke said gerrof blackguard my ancestors fought for this land and this title . “ Alright “ says the Blacksmith “ I `ll fight you for it ….”

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