Thursday, March 12, 2009

Migration Watch

Migration Watch are watching

11 comments:

Bill Quango MP said...

I never understood the benefits.

" A boost for business who employ very low paid workers."

OK. But those low paid workers contribute a tiny amount of overall tax. If they need to use a school or a hospital or the services of the police then they would actually be a drain. Once unemployment benefits have to be paid they must become a net cost to the country.
The business concerned may be more profitable and pay more tax, but it would require a LOT of profit to outweigh a significant number of employees coming into the country.

I am all for migrant workers. Many in retail and hospitality and manufacturing are so far above the standard of the indigenous UK workers that their productivity is a real boost and they are sought after.. Many are professionals in care, medicine, It, engineering etc.

Its simply that the governments decade long spin that all immigration is good for all of us never stood up up to any sort of rational scrutiny.
And this talk of how we need younger people to pay our older pensions.

Might even be the case.
But when these new young people require health/schools/protection/transport etc where is the money to found to fund the necessary projects?
And when these same people require their pensions to be paid in 20 - 30 years time..how many extra people will this giant pyramid scheme need to fund it?

These are just the legals. There is a program on now on BBC news about the illegals camping out in Calais to get to the UK. This is still going on. This was an early Blair term headache. Yet its still going strong, just under reported.

What a disaster immigration policy has been for a decade. Just to claim a moral high ground and capture votes.

And the worst thing is, by shutting down all debate and hiding statistics and fudging or not collecting or reporting data the Government makes me sound like a daily Mail reading madman just for disagreeing with their rosy garden acceptable version of events..

Auntie Flo' said...

Bill Quango said:

"I am all for migrant workers. Many in retail and hospitality and manufacturing are so far above the standard of the indigenous UK workers that their productivity is a real boost and they are sought after.. Many are professionals in care, medicine, It, engineering etc."

I work in recruitment, so have have employed and had contact with a lot of migrant workers during the past decade. In the early days of mass migration here from Eastern Europe, before word got about, I received the same response, over and over, from, joyously happy, Eastern Europeans when they were told how much our weekly pay rates are:

Expressions of total disbelief. The biggest smiles you ever saw. And: That is a month's pay, yes, that is not a week's pay? I've seen Eastern Europeans punch the air and dance around my office when they learned how much they would earn. Little wonder Eastern Europeans have a reputation for being so hard working, they are super motivated by pay rates hugely in excess of pay they have ever earned.

When asked why they were so overjoyed, they would tell me that there is no work in their part of ....where ever... and that they would have to work over a month at home to earn our weekly pay rate. Most of our Eastern European workers live in multi-occupancy accomodation and spend very little on living costs. Most aim to save money - often to enable them to purchase land or a business in their own country - and to send money home to their families.

If you were offered 4-5 times what you've ever earned in your life, asquith, wouldn't you work your socks off for it?

Years ago I had a contract to recruit staff for a certain well known, rather unconventional entrepeneur. He paid such good salaries and huge bonuses to his workforce - the majority of whom were the British workers that the suppine Mandelson has had the nerve to brand as lazy. I coudn't see how this entrepreneur would make his product pay. I soon found out how.

The boss would go into the factory in the morning and say: right, my little treasures, I'm on a promise this afternoon - and so are all of you. Finish this job by midday and I'll pay you a £50 bonus on top of your normal bonus. Nine times out of ten, his staff would finish well before midday. The staff were happy, the boss was happy - and he is now a very rich man. Yet he would be in trouble with the PC, elf and safety police if he motivated staff in that way now.

In my experience, British workers are as good as any in the world if they're properly motivated.

Newmania said...

Bill Q I have been thinking along just those lines

Flo thanks for that which i rea with interest , ...not sure why you mention Asquith , is he the symbol of all things to be disagreed with ?

asquith said...

Wondered that too actually. :)

Maybe it's just that Auntie Flo's views are so different to mine that she's used to giving me a good kicking & views me as the ultimate knobhead.

I suspect that people who cross continents in order to earn money are going to be more motivated than those who demand that the council give them a house & the state give them X, Y & Z or there'll be hell to pay. Also their children do much better in schools as we have seen, which is one of the many reasons "positive" discrimination should be done away with.

I not only think immigrants can make a great contribution, I like a lot of them. It is only the numbers I object to, not the idea. A lot of asylum seekers, too, fall into the worthwhile category & should be allowed to work & regularised.

I don't think these Luton jihadists were immigrants for the most part, they are likely to be second or third generation who don't know what Islamism is. Those who have fled Iran because they have fallen foul of the tyranny which exists there are glad to live with English liberty.

I once knew an Iranian refugee who was a student before fleeing, berated by an uneducated twat (who had been born in this country & had a British passport, for all the use it did) for not wearing a hijab. She asked why this person lives in England if he had such backward attitudes.

You see, some get it & others don't. Personally I do not believe there is a God, but if there was he would not want a face like that to be behind a veil!

But again, a lot of this segregation is caused by the state, pandering to unelected "leaders", misguidedly supporting translation rather than ESOL, & most of all allocating council houses on racial grounds to appease potential BNP voters on the sink estates.

So I like a lot of asylum seekers, but I dare say not most of them, & it will be hard to decide who stays but it is a decision which has to be reached.

As for the Poles I think they are the best thing that has happened to this country in decades. They, alongside some of the black Zimbabweans I've met, have exemplary attitudes. The only problem (for me) is they would probably all be Tories if they had the vote! :)

As for all this internationalism & the like, I've never really considered working abroad. Am a bit of a twat when it comes to having shite jobs & such. But I pay for myself & rarely use public services, so it's my own business if I don't do anything important.

asquith said...

What I mean is that these people are used to living in a western country & take freedom for granted, so they can moan about it.

If they lived under a theocracy they would absolutely hate it. They should be sent to live somewhere Islamic & told to make up their minds what sort of country they want. They'd soon realise Britain isn't so bad after all.

Don't know if you saw this, like.
http://pubphilosopher.blogs.com/pub_philosopher/2009/03/jihad-on-benefits.html

Newmania said...

Bloody hell Asquith , you do stick you noce all over the place don`t you

asquith said...

Yes, but I hardly ever go outside Stoke, let alone foreign countries. The world comes to me, for some reason.

Auntie Flo' said...

...not sure why you mention Asquith , is he the symbol of all things to be disagreed with? (newmania)

No, I really like asquith, he's a good bloke. My post was largely in reply to his:

"Many in retail and hospitality and manufacturing are so far above the standard of the indigenous UK workers that their productivity is a real boost and they are sought after." (asquith)

That's an unfair comparison because it doesn't compare like with like. Give British workers (where ever in the world they or their families come from) the same incentives that Eastern Europeans and other migrants have when they come here and they will work every bit as hard and display an exemplary work ethic too.

Those incentives may include long periods without work prior to migrating here. They may include isolation - a proportion of migrant workers came here with barely a word of English. Many female and male migrants have left their spouses and children behind in their home countries yet, though they miss them dearly, deny themselves as much even one visit home for a couple of years, until they return for good - in order to save every penny they can.

Within weeks of arrival, most have sussed out the cheapest (often black market) sources of everything they need, food, cigarettes, booze and accomodation. Some establish 'blackmarket' import micro-businesses, sending money home to spouses for cheap goods and selling these to work mates. I imagine they'll be long gone home before Inland Revenue ever think of coming calling. Some take out loans and buy goods on the sort of never, never which really does mean never - as they have no intention of paying all - or, in some cases, any - of the debts they acrue.

The sole reason many migrants come here is to make lots of money and to go home. Lacking the distractions of family life, they are super motivated by loneliness, isolation and their single minded aim of becoming money making machines. Some, of course, get to like the migrant way of life to go home.

Are British workers any different to overseas workers? I've known busloads of British workers (not my staff!) travel 100 miles each way ever day for poorly paid, horrible jobs for the sake of their families.

Two of my staff used to drive to and from the North East every week. They shared a bed sit, lived apart from their wives and children for much of the week, and worked as hard as any staff I've ever had. A very tiring and stressful life it was for them, but it was the only work they could get to pay their mortgages and support their families. One of my best workers I ever had was a wonderful Brit who retired at 78.

Like you, asquith, I greatly admire our migrant workers, and I'm all in favour of properly managed migration to UK. I do, however, admire our indigenous and naturalised British workers too and I'm so angry with Mandelson (has her ever done a proper job in his life?) for putting us Brits down.

Auntie Flo' said...

Gawd, apologies for my sloppy postings. I didn't to call Mandelson 'her', must read through my postings

Newmania said...

I admire migrants Flo but I think our own people come first. I also like immigration but woukld like it sensibly controlled .

I resent being made to look like an extremist for the most moderate of views

Auntie Flo' said...

"our own people come first."

Agreed - every single time. However we must accept that our own people are now a diverse lot.

"I also like immigration but woukld like it sensibly controlled"

That's what I mean when I say it must be properly managed. Uk's current population forecasts are seriously terrifying.

No one who loves our country and its people could ever contemplate forcing such a huge number of migrants on UK. The fact that Brown and zanulab are planning this says it all for me about where they're coming from - and why they must go and never return to government.

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