Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Problem : Some BNP supporters are decent people

Lord dale of Blogland had a post up noting that the BNP were counselling their members to vote UKIP if they did not have a thug in situ . His clear intention was to smear UKIP by association with the Working Class Nationalist Party and electorally that makes plenty of sense . There is a considerable cross over between UKIP and the Consertvative Party but In a recent survey, 32% of Labour voters said they would vote BNP as second choice, only 12% of Conservative voters chose BNP as a second choice. In other words there is nothing in it for Les Bleus . I have always accepted this but I am still unhappy that the Conservative Party ignores its working class support . It is the Soul of the Party. I posted a couple of times expressing some ambivalence about the BNP and as I got quite a good response I am putting them up here . If only I could stop posting on other people sites I might get a half decent one together myself eh.

Newmania said
I `m always surprised at the way you attack UKIP Iain . Personally I find them unrealistic but I do agree with much of what they say and if I thought they could win a good part of my objections would be gone. Personally I usually prefer then to the time serving media clones that have so contaminated public life in the main Parties. The BNP is not really a Socialist Party is it ,it’s a Nationalist Party which unlike some has undertaken to reduce tax …. and barring its abhorrent racist views ,which I gather may well be dropped , also takes up a lot of the ground the Liberal Conservative Party has vacated.
I see UKIP certainly and possibly the BNP is it develops away from its unacceptable genesis , as allies of the Conservative Party . In this context its isn`t hard to see that there would be a cross pollination and the truth is there are equally points of agreement with the Conservatives as you know .

With the Break up of the Union now inevitable it is essential that resurgent Nationalism is not the preserve of racists and fascists . Most of the BNP`s votes come from people who are neither and I see it as up to the Conservative Party to seek a rapprochement with those who feel they are not heard. If I `m honest bellowing Caliban of the BNP in some ways appeals to me more than UKIP which cannot seems to make a simple case for self government without wanting to bring back the birch.

There is something rather unwholesome about this post and what I especially do not like is the implication that a whole swathe pf people are so disgusting that if they as much as mention your name they are tainted. Cameron should stop hugging hoodies are start understanding the BNP.

And dale said in his “Who me ?” way……………….
Could anyone actually explain where I have attacked UKIP in this post? Anyone with half a brain will be able to see that I have gone out of my way not to. Read the article again.

and so I replied …..

Iain you ask why the BNP would sympathise with UKIP when there policies are so different. I appreciate you have tried to stress the differences but asking the question carries a meaning of which you are well aware. Its not what you say its what they hear, and as a super sophisticated media savvy Westminster village mouse like you well knows I took you to have asked the “question “ knowingly. Political Parties out of power are not a sum of their professed polices or what they say they will be they are the sum of the members and supporters they are expressions of momentum in public life . You are implying there is a sympathy between supporters and members of these parties behind their policies and this is highly embarrassing to UKIP. That is what I took the point to be .
Perhaps I was mistaken but ( Jeremy) I did ,as always , think about what I posted. You ( Jeremy)think that vehemently opposing the BNP inoculates your views from the taint nationalism carries but I`m not sure how honest that (common) gambit is. There is a place for working class nationalism in this country and the Conservative Party have abandoned it . I just feel uncomfortable when the middle-classes talk of the BNP like lepers.I confess is not an entirely resolved disquiet but there it is .As far as their racism is concerned I have better reasons than most for fearing it.

So there you go . The BNP has some nasty people in it but I cannot forget that some decent people vote for it and I think the Conservative Party should try to understand why


The Green Arrow said...

Of course the BNP as some nasty people in it. Although I have never actually met any of those.

But what political party doesn't?

But you are right there are some really decent people in the BNP and the services that they have done for this country and their communities really shames me.

Roll on May 3rd - let us find out what the people think.

How many eggs can you eat?

Newmania said...

The Conservative Party may have some bad eggs but I have to say I cannot remember meeting anyone in it I really objected to .

eggs ..dunno quail or plover ?

Anonymous said...

We could make omelettes Mr N - a superfood apparently!

Electro Kevin said...

I would venture that a LOT of BNP supporters are decent people.

Their policies make a lot of sense ... but for one.

A couple of years ago I visited their web-site which mentioned something which sounded to me to be suspiciously like eugenics. I posted them a question (no reply) and on my last visit there was no mention of this policy.

Why does such a party need to have such a nasty twist to it ? The fact that I agree with much else what they say does worry me a little.

Eggs - too much collestarol to form the main part of a diet.

I have a photo of me covered in raw eggs after a 'party' that got a little bit lively (in police uniform - on duty) super-feud more like, Mutley.

The Hitch said...

Why the fuck are some people willing to lay down thier lives for their country?
OK there may be other reasons such as the buzz of kill or be killed.

I dont hate races I just hate certain cultures.
As usual P you get right to the point , I wish you would also quit the conservative party and join the BNP , unlike cameron you dont
"like this country the way it is"
Heres some news ,nor do many black or Asian people.

Newmania said...

Thatcher had it right Hitch. The EU will not work because the English will never make sacrifices for the French and visa versa. Thats why they are always lying. Security depends on string cohesive countries not just for defence but for all the help freely given to eachother that makes life worth the living.

The tribe , the demos the people the land the history the honour . Without that its just a carpark for strangers .

No I do not like this country the way it is . On the other hand there are lots of things better than fifty years ago and we can never go backwards. I would never join the BNP, I do have some sympthy for those who vote for it for a variety of reasons

Raedwald said...

That's the problem - huge numbers of Brits support BNP policies just so long as they're not from the BNP - this survey from Yougov last year is self explanatory:

My guess for 3rd May is that they'll poll 20% average in the wards in which they're standing in England.

If they make big gains, and equal the lib dems, then the media agonising will start - to give them equal exposure or ignore them as 'other'?

Newmania said...

How intersting R. I`m really not sure about this .Its not just the racism I dislike, I just cannot bear to see working class nationalsim so looked down upon .

Felicity said...

I think I'm a nice person.
I was a Tory and now vote BNP. I'll be giving them my two Scottish votes.
The other parties are not interested in my concerns and the leader of the Tories sacks people, even war heroes mentioned in Dispatches for deviating from his PC agenda.

The BNP are the awkward squad and I hope they do well.
Uncaring politicians will feel the rottweiler snap at their heels if they try to take Britain any further down a dangerous path without due consultation.

el Tom said...

Let's not 'understand' the BNP, in the same way we don't try to 'understand' suicide bombers. The fact that a person is 'decent' doesn't mean they're not wrong.

"Their policies make a lot of sense ... but for one."

You'er serious? 'voluntary' 'repatriation' of third generation british people? Whose families were via empire british citizens? 'Voluntary'?

No mention of the famous 'machine gun for every household' pledge of 2005?

Racism should not be 'understood'. It should be squashed. That obligation falls upon the Conservative Party as much as any other.

One nation my arse...

el Tom said...

Hi Paul, cheers for your comment. I thought I'd just pop back and offer a little elucidation on mine.

Firstly, I'd like to respond to the point you make about minority communities and attitudes therein to race. Paul, I absolutely condemn discriminatory attitudes when they are based on race wherever they come from. Racism from minority communities is as racist as that from majority communities. You'll find that attitude reflected across a lot of the stuff I write.

Secondly, far from accusing you of being a racist, I am raising awareness of the fact that mainstream politicians should not bend to racist agendas because some people who happen to have legitimate concerns have been conned into voting for a racist party.

It's clear that people with concerns about the results of immigration are going to the BNP.

However, what is also important to recognise is that the people are forming an unacceptable response to that stimulus. They know that the BNP are interested in race, not nation; yet they vote for them.

Perhaps the key is in finding acceptable policy alternatives based on equality to the resources that immigration can remove or misallocate. The point that I'm making is that while it can be legitimate to understand the problems of some BNP voters (the 'decent people'), we should not seek to promote the idea that BNP influenced policies are in any way acceptable.

Alternative solutions are in order.

Back in my marxist days, our words towards BNP voters used to be quite simple: it's not the brown people who make you poor. It's the people who won't allow more social housing; the people who cut jobs; the people that put people on benefits in the first place.

Yesterday is the New Tomorrow said...

It is a real pity that the BNP continues to be supported by a vociferous minority who simply don't have the intellectual capacity to make what is actually a very simple argument stack up.
However, I suspect that the tipping point is not too far away. Here's hoping.

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