Saturday, August 11, 2007

Scottish End Game

An opinion poll in Jock land shows the SNP on a massive 48%.Two years ago they achieved a mere 17% at the 2005 general election, . The Labour Party is on 32%, the same as they achieved in May, but the Tories and LibDems have halved their votes to 8% and 8% respectively. The LibDems have been consistently scoring single digit figures in Scottish polls, but the end of Tory Scotland is the real point .
Nonetheless this is good news , you can tell by the degenerate whining of the Brown Reich apologists . The Labour Party have benefited from a generation of anti Union feelings at the Celtic fringe and this long terms drift, reflected across Europe, has maintained them as a Party at times when they would have been rightfully snuffed out. .
Labour are a socialist Party in a country which detests socialism, and a Party of redistribution when Capitalism has continued to provide wealth .Hence their delaying of the boundary commission .They are always the losers in population movement from their deliberately constructed slums to Conservative areas but the chnage is slow to be reflected in the Constituencies. In their own strategic literature they admit this in somewhat different terms .
The Unionist history of the Conservatism has taken half a century to wither and this coincidence of facts has made the minority Labour Party into a dominant force in England . Now Nationalist feeling in the North is approaching its proper expression Labour realise they will be finished forever in England . What will this power hungry malignant yellow fanged predator do thus cornered , we can expect a vicious attack on the constitution which I suspect Brown has already made plans for .( In fact I know he has from admissions in his New Statesman mouthpiece)
There will be show trial committees that decide , magically, that a weird and wonderful transferable vote system is long overdue and by some formula they will prevent the English from ruling our country at the polling booth . If the toad Brown tries this .I and others are ready to take direct action outside Parliament.I hope the English will rise up in fury against this odious would be despot
This is why Brown must not have any sort of mandate for wholesale vandalism of our ancient rights at the next election .Forget Scotland it’s the majority in England that counts . Salmon has not yet begun to spend money persuading the Scots or to fabricate grievance , he certainly will and ironically does not want to be too successful until he has the referendum result in the bag. He is justified in this in that SNP votes are pro independence but other votes are not anti independence as is sometimes ludicrously claimed.

I believe both the Scots and the English will benefit from independence of each other and but I am still all ears . On the many occasions this subject has cropped up Noone ,not once , not ever has managed to give me one benefit the English get from staying in this antiquated and undemocratic Union structure. Our taxes buy foreign votes to deny us our choice and we are endlessly abused and hated by those who take our coin .A foreign Party system now operates in Scotland one half of which is counted in England in monstrous imposition of quasi imperial rule . Then of course there is the actual democratic defacit that really only hides the structural and far more serious deficit
The left attack Conservatives by pointing out the incoherence of a Unionists Party encouraging separation. They are years behind . Unionists are like the ridiculous old buffers that grumbled on about the empire into the 1970s , They are beating their wings in a vacuum

Interesting times for Scotland but a battle for the future of England will be more interesting provoked by the Scottish question and the gerrymandering Labour have existed on for years . SNP support will rise as they will manipulate circumstances to ensure it does. This time next year it will be worse for Brown and he may yet decide to go early if he has the cash

24 comments:

Ed said...

I hardly know anyone who thinks England and Scotland should still be married.

I know that the Tories are traditionally a Unionist party but cannot Tories realise that the Union is over. If they were to propose English independence I'm sure there would be a huge swing to the Tories.

Maggie won by being a patriot so can DC.

I think there will be a big outpouring if Brown takes a wrecking ball to the voting system but I also think he is skating on thin ice regarding the EU Treaty too.

Nick Drew said...

Perhaps the key is to figure out some immense price for which we can sell our seat at the Security Council (probably to the EU, but hey, I believe in the free market, an auction will be fine)

and I mean cash up front, not jam tomorrow

& then the scots can embrace their destiny as the Slovakia of the North

Anonymous said...

You are so right, newmania. My blood boils with anger over that gross injustice whereby a despotic and corrupt minority of Scots politicians hold sway over the over the overwhelming majority of us in England.

And let's not mince words here, that corrupt clique have not just stolen English pounds but have effectively killed English people - by denying England's cancer suffers essential drugs and England's elderly citizens essential care - in their failed, despicable attempt to buy Scots votes by syphoning off England's money to Scotland.

My daughter is half Scots and we've many much loved Scots family members, I've no ill feeling towards the Scots and wish them all the luck in the world with their Independence.

It isn't the majority of Scots who despotically hold sway over England and who deny us democracy, it's that corrupt political elite who smarm and lie about wanting social justice while knowingly and deliberately deny this to the people of England.

Direct action for England? I'm with you 110%

Cry God for William, Harry and St George, death or freedom, England must be free!

Auntie Flo'

Newmania said...

I also think he is skating on thin ice regarding the EU Treaty too.

The latter especially is a fresh corpse right now Ed but as the moneths go on...

Newmania said...

Reykjavik of the South as opposed to Athens if the North Nick was the wasy Stoppard put it in the play Jumpers.

Actukally I think withou the warping facot of the UK the Scots will become the trading nation they have always been . Financial Services are going dambusters up there and if they got rid of all the fake industries they would be aklot better off

Newmania said...

Cry God for William, Harry and St George, death or freedom, England must be free!


I can see Mc Broon sneaking into the Princes bedrooms with a long and evilly curved knife Flo.
The position of Wales is quite different though ,we will have to dsee what they want to do.

Steven_L said...

What happens currency wise? If they want the Euro we end up with 2 interest rates on one small Island, which kind of defeats the object.

I believe England and Scotland need monetary union. How they tax and spend should be up to them. A joint defence fund both nations pay into on a per capita basis and no Scottish votes on English matters.

Fine so far, now for the big one, North-Sea oil - discuss!

Newmania said...

I doubt that will be possible Styven , the first thing Scitland will want to do is launch into the EU and the first thing England will want to do is get out .

Svotalnd will do waht they think suits them without any reference to us as they always do. Play it by ear I say, whats the problem its just as easy to do business in Ireland..and I do both

Anonymous said...

Steven_L

Fine so far, now for the big one, North-Sea oil - discuss!


NS oil and gas will have dried up in 15 years or so, say, 20 years if exploration of smaller, less economical fields is opened up. England will have expanded nuke power before then.

Re the loss of oil and gas revenue to England, that would be more than offset by the huge savings on our various subisidies to Scotland.

And an Independent England would not be governed by nulab which, in itself, would save us countless billions by enabling rationalisation of our spending on all manner of grotesque waste: the EU ~ quangos, regional government ~ immigration ~ to name just a few.

Auntie Flo'

Ed said...

Why would an independent Scotland and England want to be monetarily joined?

Surely self-determination extends to economic policy. The SNP are pro-EU so as N points out they would probably dive into the Europool and England would probably eventually come out altogether.

Newmania said...

Glad you managed to decipher that Ed ... I think my typing may not have been at its best there

CityUnslicker said...

Not very lilkey that the ruo is going to be in existence for them to join.

Also Brown have the wonder of Adam Smith put on the Notes to encourage the scots that it is their currency too.

Long term the best solution is a federal state, preferably a republic in my view.

Ths shame of it is that politically as N writes beautifully is that the socialists will never allow this to happen as they would be banished from power.

Stan! said...

As for Scotland, the chickens are now coming home to roost for “New Labour” and that could be the development which Mr Brown fears most.There can be few things that Brown would dread more than dealing with a minority-SNP government in Edinburgh coming to power just as he is asserting control over No 10 Downing Street. The scope for confict and tension between the two sides could be immense. Ironically, much of the the cause for this situation lies with Gordon Brown himself who fervently championed the cause of devolution for Scotland in the 1990s.In political terms, the arithmetic in the Scottish Parliament means that First Minister Alex Salmond’s ability to propose a Scottish independence referendum is unlikely to be achieved in the lifetime of the current parliament. But what lies ahead? In July 2007, it was disclosed that the civil service in London and Edinburgh are formally operating as separate administrations, severing the powerful links that used to bind Scotland to the rest of the United Kingdom. Scotland’s most senior civil servant Sir John Elvidge has admitted that the election of the SNP has brought an end to the contacts and informal exchange of information that used to be commonplace between the Scottish Executive and UK government in the first eight years of devolution. He also disclosed that plans wer being developed to create a separate Scottish civil service and suggested that the Scottish Executive could be formally renamed as the Scottish Government

*Blair by contrast to Brown was never much of an enthusiast for devolving power to Scotland. That is to Tony's credit....and you won't hear me praise him very often.

Stan! said...

City Unslicker,
I agree- the current situation is untenable. As in Spain, where there is considerable asymmetry between regional-based units, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were all granted varying degrees of devolved government in accordance with the prevailing demand for constitutional reform. England, however, has been neglected in the devolution settlement as there is at present, little or consistent demand for an English parliament.
Time for the English to demand the obvious....

Anonymous said...

I love the SNP
Oh, yes I do
And Alex Salmond
I love you too
If you were skinnier
I'd marry you
Alex Salmond I love you xxx

Auntie Flo'

Newmania said...

Stan I was unaware of all this , I am not at all suprised but to be honest I am fairly amazed it passed me by . I have been fixated with the pictish hoard and their sheep stealing ways for ages now .

Also
English parliament.
Time for the English to demand the obvious....


THis could be come a fact before any institutional change It is increasingly untenable to impose legisaltion on England with Scottish votes and he SNP are bound to try to drive the wedge in further . I belive events could be quite swift and I think labour will counter with either a Lib Lab pact or PR

Stan! said...

I could bore the arse off everybody on this point but I won't. My Phd thesis was on the SNP....happy days.

vanfuertes said...

"If they were to propose English independence I'm sure there would be a huge swing to the Tories"

What in God's name are you talking about?? I really don't understand the English nationalism thing. I like England, I live in the place, but what has it ever achieved on its own? Why does Union with Scotland offend people so?

In terms of academic, military or political achievements as a nation Britain has done brilliantly. I don't think England or Scotland individually would have had a hope of achieving all they have as part of the UK.

The argument about Scotland being a drain on English taxpayers is also a non-starter. I live in Altrincham, where average earnings are very high, but I don't demand a 'Trafford parliament' because lazy Cockneys in Bow or Dagenham or wherever else are a drain on my finances.

Why not just accept that an English parliament is not a popular idea, since most people see it for what it is; a waste of time and money.

Ed said...

I agree that an English parliament would be a waste of time. I want full independence for Scotland and Wales.

Why? Because I am English not British. I am happy to support English citizens that fall on hard times but not happy to pay the Scots to not work. That is what being a nation is about - there is a limit to the size of one's extended family. It's not that I don't like Scotland or the Scots not a bit of it - I love it and some of my family are from there but they are with us but not of us.

Now the asymmetrical constitution is upon us we have a situation where elections in England don't affect the outcome of policy - because of the Scottish MPs' votes on English matters. That is a democratic outrage and anyone who thinks it is boring or insubstantial is deluding themselves.

If the UK is to stay together it needs a system as proposed by CU not a totally unbalanced system that we have now thanks to devolution.

Newmania said...

My Phd thesis was on the SNP....happy days.

Goody. I wish I`d done one of those I vastly preffferred Uni to work.

Newmania said...

The argument about Scotland being a drain on English taxpayers is also a non-starter. I live in Altrincham, where average earnings are very high, but I don't demand a 'Trafford parliament' because lazy Cockneys in Bow or Dagenham or wherever else are a drain on my finances.

That is because they are part of the same country. It really is quite ridiculous that the “Nation of Scotland is accorded such a special place whereas the nation of England is , according to those who hate it , simply an area of land which you can tax divide and ignore whenever it suits you

Why not just accept that an English parliament is not a popular idea, since most people see it for what it is; a waste of time and money.


I t would cost nothing and would redress the obvious disparity between the counting of Scottish and English votes which maintains the Labour Party in power.

V That ..!”Oh don’t be silly oh just agree with me “ argument is never impressive at the best of times and your particular points are thin as paper. It may mean little to you but then you may not have noticed that England’s political wishes are ignored

In reality Conseervatives will introduce English votes if they win. That seems the logical next step

Stan! said...

Ed is spot on. I also no longer use the epithet British. The Union is an anachronism- a legacy of the pre-modern age. Manifestly few are satified with the current arrangements. At least, Devolution has usefully served to throw into stark relief the absurdity of the unionist system.
Would the Tories ever commit to setting up an English parliament?
'can't see it!

Newmania said...

English votes would achieve the same thing thing Stan

Anonymous said...

newmania said:

In reality Conseervatives will introduce English votes if they win. That seems the logical next step

Please God yes! Good points, newmania

Auntie Flo'

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