Ken Livingstone, as we know , is planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands. What do you think about it? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport facilities?? BIGGER THAN ST PAULS!!!
The plan is for the mosque to be so big that people flying in from all over the world for the 2012 Olympics will it see it as the biggest landmark in London , bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium
Take a second to cast your vote in The Evening Standard on-line poll to determine public opinion about whether a mega mosque should be built for the Olympics.
he vote so far is 62 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim
community is casting its vote in droves, and as usual the Christians
are burying their heads in the sand....
After voting, forward this to as many people as
you can. Here's the link:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/poll/poll-18...ote+now/poll.do
EDIT
Looks like its crashed which is encouraging I suppose
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53 comments:
Hello Mr N, I tried to vote but the link didn't work.
Not to be cynical, but what's the point even voting against? Londoners have brought this on themselves.
If you vote for a lunatic to have the rule over you, what is the point of launching petitions when he acts according to his nature and runs around creating havoc?
Of course I realise that not everybody voted for this mad man, but the point is, unlike with other politicians, it was very clear with Ken Livingstone exactly what sort of Mayor he would be. Yet twice he was elected.
Thanks Margorie ... I`ve rather missed you.. I `ll check the link
it was very clear with Ken Livingstone exactly what sort of Mayor he would be. Yet twice he was elected.
BEL
Have a think about the demographics of London and how they get that way and the reaons for his election will become clear.
For example in my Borough where I am usually to be found protesting about somemthing 50% of the pop are in Coucil,accomodation and 705 of them are on benefite .
All of course solidly registered Labour voters .This bought and paid for vote plus a mish mash of those who hate England are his Constituency and we are simply out-numbered.
It might interest you to now thta i applied to the conserrvative Party to run for Mayor . I had the backing of the Chairman of the Local party .
They did not even answer. Instead we will get gay Etonian and lifetime Policy Wonk Cameroon Nic Boles .
NO CHANCE
It is deeply depressing but those of us who detest Ken and his evil must do what we can
I think the link has been flooded , this is going arounnd London
Mr N, it's been a busy few days: I had a cousin staying, and now my liver has almost collapsed.
Anyway, I eventually found the poll (that website is a nightmare) and this link might work:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/poll/poll-18791-details/ques-18669-id/%C2%A3100m+mosque%3A+Vote+now/poll.do
Aren't churches, mosques etc usually funded by their own members?! I am slightly confused.
Tut, the end of the link has been cut off. This is the rest of it (if it shows up:
ues-18669-id/%C2%A3100m+mosque%3A+Vote+now/poll.do
Hurrah!
http://tinyurl.com/322bl9
Here's a click through
show off.
Thanks for showing off, C! I have just been able to vote.
Isn`t he though
Margorie - Would I be right in thinking you are (you say)
1 Very sexy
2 A Lush
Good combination young lady . My congratulations .
What did you say you did for a living by the way ? Was it something medical ?
If Londoners reject it - I would suggest that the Mosque be built instead on the top of Bridport Hill - it could be seen for miles and would be a nice place for all the Moslems to come! Surely a rural location would be desirable? Also I have a lot of cement which I could sell Ken very cheap
Thanks Mutley , I`ll pass that on when i see him tonight , he still owes me money (
( See I can do this Mutleying thing a little bit )
Oh dear, Mr N. Thank you for your congratulations, but...
I'm sure I said "ish" after point 1. As for point 2, it would be very rude not to entertain my cousin during his trip to the capital (I also had to endure conversations about Kraftwerk, lorries and darts), although I suppose I didn't have to match him drink for drink!
Yes, I do "something medical". But not today, and nothing to do with livers, thankfully. Head remains buried in the sand.
The reason it is right next to the Olympics for all to see is no coincidence. It is an assertion of power.
If Ken allows it, he is an utter fool.
Is there no limit to these self-loathers?
NeueArbeit Macht Frei
Thanks for popping in Roger ,,lord I only ever did one year of German
but I think thats
New Work make Free
A good motto for builders engaged in bloating up Coucil contracts but I suspect the Godwin prize has to day been won by the redoubtable Mr. Thornhill.
Ah Nazi Germany its sits where once we used to have thing called history syllabus
Yes, I do "something medical".
You aren`t is any way shape of from ...a nurse are you ?
( Bearing in mind 1 and 2 )
"!I also had to endure conversations about Kraftwerk, lorries and darts),"
HA HA HA she funny lady .Me like
the hitch has nearly detonated once today , that news has sent me critical
Do we fight back or do we leave with a smole and leave them to slip into the shite that they came from?
roger you will find lots of jewish items on my blog
I cannot say I approve of your output today Mr. Hitch
( Note : haughty froideur and formal nomeclature)
Mr N, no not a nurse... sorry to disappoint!
Yes I thought you were up to some cursed cleverness or other.Miss M Good luck with that.
Nurses..sigh....so genorous...so giving ...so warm and ...
Typical Christians. Am off to vote
Have voted - well done Croydonian. Thankyou much.
When I left Watford I could see more minarets than I could church spires from my bedroom window. Watford has the largest Mosque in Britain (I think Europe too actually).
Ooops !
I've just been corrected by my wife. It was the biggest mosque in ... er... Hertfordshire !
Well it looked fuckin' big from where I was standing !
N -
I'm half the man I used to be.
My fighting days are over.
"Ben Battle was a soldier bold,
And used to war's alarms;
But a cannon-ball took off his legs,
"So he laid down his arms!
"Now as they bore him off the field,
Said he, 'Let others shoot,
For here I leave my second leg,
And the Forty-second Foot!'"
Is that Kipling Lud ?
yEESH I`M DRUNK,
Where is you evidence that any public spending has been committed to the mosque - apart from a few comments in Mail Group newspapers I cannot find a thing. Are you and the Mail just resorting to scaremongering?
If there is no public spending quite frankly this it is none of our business how these people want to spend their money - freedom of religous thought and all that.
Personally, I'm against all state funding of religion and that includes Church of England schools.
Don't want it anyway, regardless of who's paying.
A large and deliberate statement of intent ...
... on second thoughts, let them build it.
Oh BTW, Muslims never seem to 'grow up' either.
N -
Close, and a pretty reasonable guess.
It's Thomas Hood, "Faithless Nelly Grey".
Do you think Margorie might be ...er... ???
Oh forget it, I'm seeing the person I'm thinking of just about everywhere now.
Sorry, Margorie. Keep up the good medical work.
i don't see why we need more mosques unless we are thinking of heavily inceasing the muslim population. tell me what good purpose that would serve?
I
Besides which, there's already a huge Mosque in East London - the biggest in the UK according to Wikipedia.
ElectroKevin, I'm sure I'm not who you think I am, (whoever that is) and am a bit baffled! But thanks for your good wishes.
Perhaps I should explain a little, Margorie. There's someone been using different pseudonyms for different sites. Clearly you are definitely YOU and not this person.
(It was your mensh of Kraftwerk)
Hope you're no longer baffled.
freedom of religous thought and all that.
No I do not agree. When that religious thought includes the active encouragement to attack non believers, for example Islignton Mosque , then the religion can be prescribed.
I am not sure to what extent public money is involved but I am sure that the runour will have come from the publicly funded Livingstone forever campaign . he is always sucking up to the Muslims , well he would , they all vote Labour and they area rapidly exapndong section of his electorate.
Thomas Hood eh ..Know nothing about him although the name is familiar LUD
Thanks fr that i like poetry and verse ..I sometimes feature poetry for some purpose or other the latest was Tennyson
Margorie...The famous , fearsome and greatly respected VERITY has on occassion called herself Margorie . You seem a gentler soul although I notice that you have a some pretty strong opinions yourself on subjects that interest you .
Which is , of course , the whole point.
Oh dear, I didn't realise that. I am definitely not Verity. Promise.
Nothing wrong with Verity or indeed Margorie....except that you aren`t a nurse
Re your response on religous freedom - there are already perfectly good laws about encouraging people to attack others. But that isn't what these people want to do - they want to build a mosque. If they are already encouraging people to attack others then you should pursue them on this - but I somehow doubt that you can do this - so you are trying to use alternative means. The argument that you should not do legal X because it will give you the means to do illegal Y of course was an old favourite of the Nazis and the Soviet Union (you cannot leave the country because once you are out you will attack the Motherland etc. ad nauseam)- and it really is the thin edge of the wedge.
Glad to see that you are not letting the lack of any facts about public funding get in the way of whipping up a bit of religous hatred. I presume you belong to the same Tory party whose canvassers in Kent told me that asylum seekers were adding £200 per year to my council tax bill.
If they are not using the Milleneum Dome for a casino why not paint the roof gold and use that as a mosque! If they are why not just clear the slot machines out on friday just before prayers?
I'm sure the money would be better spend on a refuge/drop-in centre for persecuted metrosexual bloggers and one-legged lesbian single mums!
To, Tory Boys Never Grow Up,
It's those darn Christians fomenting hatred in Highbury. Up and down the country priests indoctrinating youth and oppressing women...
I'm being fascetious of course.
Why encourage religion at all nowadays, especially one that is as intolerant, strident and bigotted as this ?
The left-wing has spent decades attacking the Christian faith through arts, entertainment and politics - why is it so supine in the presence of Islam ? Is it just that anything anti-British will do ?
Yudansha
If you read my earlier post - I don't think that public money should be used to support any religion - they are all mumbo jumbo to me to be honest (at present anyway). But beyond that I am quite happy to defend the right of all of them to be allowed to say what they want (and for others to attack what they are saying!).
British socialism has very deep religous roots (owes more to Methodism than Marxism per Harold Wilson)and many of my descendants were devout Methodists so I'm not going to start Christianity or any other serious religion for that matter.
Re your response on religious freedom - there are already perfectly good laws about encouraging people to attack others.
Yes quite and why are they not used against Muslims who
1 Post their requests that homosexuals be burnt alive at bus stops in Islington and elsewhere
2 Organise in the Colleges and the Mosques to kill people
3 For the most part tacitly support terrorism according to Surveys I could look up from the national Press and as we all know .
4 Do not support the Liberal laws that you invoke to protect them
5 Hold weekly meetings in which terrorism and hate are encouraged of a type that were hey held by ,say, the English National Party, would be prescribed. This is because of people like you and your hatred of the English ,and loathing for everything contained in the notion of patriotism and our own culture. You , in short are the sort of twit who has supported multicultualsim , almost always from a safe distance
I would be perfectly happy with a rigorous legal attack on this organisation which is hated a good deal less than it deserves to be .. I repeat the story as it was given to me from the Press but I am pretty certain that the money comes from Saudi extremist sources no doubt the truth will play out . The GLA `s riole in it in any case will be pivotal with or without t money on deciding which of the many projects before them they ok for planning permission. Ken Livingstones interest will be to attack England symbolically in order to fund favour with the far right fascist theocrats with whom the is in an “unholy alliance” . Not the first of that sort as you may be aware
Fine if you think its that easy then lets have the BNP marching through Brixton. There is nothing illegal about such a March and it is in fact a vastly less dangerous organisation that is precisely the sort of totalitarian fascist movement you effect to dislike but in practice support . Just as no doubt you supported Sadaam Hussein on the grounds of pragmatism and racial determinism ( ie they are not ready for a democracy).
I am sorry for the £200 you have on your tax bill but if you seriously think any of the other parties will be able to carry a tax cutting agendas then you are a political child. State managed expenditure under Labour has grown from 38% of GDP to 45% in the ten years of Labour which is a much larger shift than it looks . Reversing this is not easy with so many new serf dependents doing nothing much in the public sector .Invisible taxes and regressive taxes are now as large as the headline income tax continuing the attack on the working classes that you and must other Liberals in private support and always have done . Look how out of tough the political middle classes were on Iraq. So I take it that your point was that you approve of the influx of asylum seekers and suppose that this happens with no cost to anyone . If you are saying this is a lie , I doubt it, and I will happily check with the Party on their facts .If this is something a person said to you then people will say tings , sometimes they are true for example the immigration figures that migration watch has published that have shown the government to have been lying for years.
Here is an interesting thing TBSGU. When people fill informs at dating agencies they always 100% put any ethnic origin will do. They do this so assert membership of a higher class because almost equally 100% ,(slightly less) ,they do not form relationships with people outside their own ethnic group. This is what antui racisk is to the Liberal a demonstration of class superiority …or at least desperate aspiration
The alliances the Lib Dums have made with the BNP and the Homophobes in the Bermondsey disgrace are to legend to recount and their opportunism and dishonesty continues .
No you are wrong I would be more than happy for the lot of them to leave and no more to come. I believe that immigration is at a level where I is a betrayal of the people whose country this is .
I daresay you think it is just a slice of land on which we happen to be parked .
Clearly we aren't allowed to attack Islam in the way that we can Christianity or Judaism.
If anyone doubts this then I urge them to try it. The producer of an Islamic version of The Jerry Springer Opera would end up in clink - admittedly a better alternative to being dead, which no one can doubt he would be.
This disparity in treatment is the effect of ersatz social Marxism which is very brave in its deconstruction of benign authority but squirms gutlessly in the face of Islam. It's almost a joy to witness the left-wing tie itself up in knots in defense of a religion which is infinitely more paternalistic, sexist and racialist than the establishment it has spent 40 years trying to remove.
British socialism has very deep religous roots (owes more to Methodism than Marxism per Harold Wilson)
Harold Wislon who stoked up class hatred and was perhaps the most cynical propogandist that we have seen in this country.
No I do not agree .British Socialism is always against religion. The British trade Unionn and cooperative movement has been closely associated with non conformist religion . Many of my descendants were devout Trade Unionists and I can only say that my impression is that the religious element was inessential to put it mildly
Whe I think of the early socialists
Shaw
HG Wells
Woolf
I struggle to see any religious feeling none so strong that it prevented them from believing in the eugenic destruction of the working class which , they felt , had let them down , badly.
Left wing intellectuals having lost all contact with the working man and his family now focus on cultural advert fodder rather than the brute facts of economics and this allows them to appear holy whilst selling out the white working class who they despise.
That is why you are unable to oppose Islam and it should and must be opposed.
FOP
. It's almost a joy to witness the left-wing tie itself up in knots in defense of a religion which is infinitely more paternalistic, sexist and racialist than the establishment it has spent 40 years trying to remove.
YUDANSHA - Yes indeed it provides me with much amusement . You would enjoy the book Whats Left by Nick Coen. I feel he is likely to be kicked out of the New-statesman very soon.
So far I see one TBSGU who I disapprove of and and one Yudansha who is clearly " One of us " and good person with many marvellous qualities.
You are most welcome .
I expect about now TBwill be starting to realise that he is fundementally in the wrong.A period of respectful silence is to be expected
If you think anyone on the Left could respect such clap trap you are really living in cloud cuckoo land. And we all have a duty not to remain silent in response.
Perhaps a few points:
- yes there are Moslem nutters, just as there are Christian nutters, unless thay are doing dangerous things then the best defence is to make fun of them (responding with fight, fight, fight headlines or making up stories about public funding being directed towards them will actually give them the oxygen they are looking for).
- I agree Nick Cohen's book is excellent - but he certainly wouldn't support most of your sentiments however - there is something between attacking extremist factions within Islam and attacking the whole religion as you appear to be doing.
- I never supported Saddam Hussein and was always believed that it was right to remove him. But one lesson of Iraq is that in order to deal with fascists like Saddam it is best not to conflate such action with an attack on an entire relgion. There are very serious problems in Iran and Sudan at the moment - and my guess is that the bad guys would point to your arguments as a way of justifying their actions.
- As for keeping a safe distance from multiculturalism I must ask my East European friends and black relatives. Most of your comments in this area are just plain ignorant and verging on racism. These are serious issues which need to be dealt with seriously - overstating the costs of asylum seekers (i.e lying) as a means of creating fear and winning a few votes is never justifiable - but you seem unable to say that it is wrong.
- Re the involvement of religion in British Socialism - best to stay silent about subjects of which you know little - no denying that there were and are atheists in the Party - but there were others such as Keir Hardy and RH Tawney who came from Christian (And other religous) backgrounds. You have obviously never heard of teh Christian Socialist Movement, socialist sunday schools or Poale Zion.
Could I suggest that you try and speak to real normal Moslems about the best way to tackle the nutters and the hardcases in their ranks - you might be surprised by their answers.
Are you the same Tory Boys Never Grow Up who began his critique of Janice Small as "The woman is clearly bonkers ..." ? (Ellee Seymour's blog). Clearly you're not shy of using the ad homynem yourself.
I'd be very wary of using the term 'racist' against Newmania too - there're a couple of reasons why you would be made to feel rather foolish for doing so - try looking back through the archives here. But by golly, you pack the usual tricks don't you !
I'm afraid there is no such thing as a 'moderate' Moslem - the Koran simply doesn't allow for it as there is no addendum that softens the faith as the New Testament does the Tora. There may be accommodating Moslems, there may be 'tolerant'* Moslems, but for a more accurate idea of how they perform when in charge it is best to look at Moslem countries and their treatment of other faiths; generally not good. And their new found stridency here, I'm afraid, is not merely the preserve of a few lunatics - the push for the full veil, Sharia law, and interest free banking etc ...
*Tolerant - defined as: to put up with something you do not approve of. Often coupled as 'tolerant Moslems' Well thankyou very much for 'tolerating' me in my own country.
I explained in my post why I thought Janice Small was bonkers. Is closing all borders until we agree quotas with countries we are culturally aligned with really a very sensible approach (as Newmania states on the same blog). Just hope you are not on holiday in France when Janice comes to power! If you think that is an ad hominem argument you really are a delicate flower.
I didn't accuse Newmania of racism - I said some of his arguments were verging on racism (e.g the reference to serfs, the comment about Liberals not having relationships outside their own ethnic group and being "more than happy for the lot of them to leave and no more to come").
Re you comments re Moslems - can I suggest that you try and talk to some because you are obviously being very selective in hearing what you want to hear. Whatever - you may think you are not going to get rid of Islam so some accomodation has to be found.
TBSGU-If you think anyone on the Left could respect such clap trap you are really living in cloud cuckoo land. And we all have a duty not to remain silent in response.
NEWMANIA- You pontificating child , do you really talk like that in real life …you must be a laughing stock ?. If you are going to pretend that you occupy some academic promontory then you are a tragically deluded a faintly pathetic little man. What left ? A mish mash of self serving a loosely connected whines. You stand for noone and you are ,“ verging on the traitorous “.,.
TBSGU- yes there are Moslem nutters, just as there are Christian nutters,
NEWMANIA-No it is not the same . I daresay you could trawl say America and find some loon Christians but you suggestion of equivalence is wildly misleading to the point of being an outright lie. Your laughter is the laughter of Lord Haw Haw .36% of young Muslims believe that a Muslim that converts to another faith should be punished by death and 15% openly admit that they admire Al Qaeda ,as per Policy exchange.45 % of British Muslims believe that 9.11 was an Israeli/ American conspiracy. As many as 100,000 British Muslims believe that the 7.7 atrocities were justified . That is Dame Eliza Manningham Buller ..heard of her ?
No other ethnic group has ever demanded the replacement of law with their own.
Can I assume that you aware of the some of remarks coming from high profile clerics in this country…for example “Jews are kuffarrs , women have insufficient intellect and gays should be thrown from the mountain…said Abu Usamah“…can’t think of a Christian equivalent here and I can quote you many more far far worse some of them from a couple of hundred yards from where I sit.
We have been lied to about immigration time and time again, recently over the EU influx ,but on along term and deliberate basis on the sub continent and African influx which is a lot harder to assimilate. Arch Bishop Sematu criticised the BBC for being afraid to criticise Muslims . Is he a racist to ? Our local Paper is certainly afraid to criticise the Finsbury Park Mosque . Do you have such a Mosque next door . Are you aware of its history , there hasn’t been a cache of guns found for a few years but yhthe same people go there. Is Trevor Phillips a racist? Who has worried about the extent of immigration Every DAY 1500 come and 1000 leave in what has been called white flight ( George Walden).Bishop Nazir Ali claimed that Muslim cleric coming from abroad were indoctrinating children …is he a racist
Why are ethnic Racial attacks in London are increasing to and the biggest sufferers are the Jews . The one race the left hate and do not include in their “pity”
Did you know that in half the known racially motivated murders between 1995 and 2004 the victim was white . Is this what you hear from the media . No because we are lied to, Immigrants are shunted up the housing list because they have more children and more need- fact. The people that applaud this are never the same people who are unable to get a house. Are you on a housing list ? I thought not
The people who so enjoy our lovely multicultural country never ever ever send their children to schools failing utterly to cope with the 8 languages that are spoken there that are already under the most social pressure in the first place . Dianne Abbot sent her children to public school despite the glare of publicity because they are black She is typical of the hypocrisy . Where are you sending your children to school . The human dump up the road from me . I think not .
TBSGU“here is something between attacking extremist factions within Islam and attacking the whole religion as you appear to be doing”
NEWMANIA-Really when the BMC went to the British government and threatened us with more bomb unless our foreign policy is to their liking ? This is an excuse for your vacillation cowardice and cant, now all the more querulous as your views look like those of a dim sixth from debater for the 1970s
TBSGU-order to deal with fascists like Saddam it is best not to conflate such action with an attack on an entire relgion. There are very serious problems in Iran and Sudan at the moment - and my guess is that the bad guys /…
… appeasement will you never learn ! Did you support the war do you now , yes or no ?
TBSGUor keeping a safe distance from multiculturalism I must ask my East European friends and black relatives. Most of your comments in this area are just plain ignorant and verging on racism.
NEWMANIA-Oh aren’t you please with your black relatives I `m so impressed. How generous of you ! .Odd how my ignorance seems to encompass a far greater knowledge of the subject than your …whatever it is . Do you have any idea how funny this sort of thing is. We already know you are pleased with yourself . Further evidence is not required
TBSGU- These are serious issues which need to be dealt with seriously - …
NEW MANIA -Oh please learn to speak and stop tacking together slabs of cliché. .
TRSGU-overstating the costs of asylum seekers (i.e lying) as a means of creating fear and winning a few votes is never justifiable - but you seem unable to say that it is wrong.
NEWMANIA-The annual bill for failed asylum seekers by the way is about £40,000,000 there are about 6000 …a very minor part of the equation but you brought it up
TBSGU- ivolvement of religion in British Socialism - best to stay silent about subjects of which you know little -
NEW MANIA -Yes good idea . You can have the history of the Labour Party and I will have everything else that there is (although I know a fair bit about the Labour Party actually). I take it you are now going to shut up unless requested for the details of Kier Hardies tailor .
I do not in any case accept that case Christianity and Socialism were obviously contemporaries that it is meaningful to say it is a progenitor of socialism. There were as many Christian Conservatives and non conformism was more important in Liberalism in the 19th century certainly . There are also many early socialist group that are anti clerical in a way you would not see in the other parties . Harold Wilson was seeking to minimise the continental Marxist element at a time when many of his close colleagues had been communists and the of left wing academia was still ( absurdly ) supportive of Russia and pro unilateral disarmament. That is why he wanted to misleadingly domesticate what is at heart Marxism , not Christianity.
This was the context of the quote you used ,and if you are honest and no anything about it you will know that I am right about his motivation Christianity was ubiquitous in our culture .Thats all
TBSGU-Could I suggest that you try and speak to real normal Moslems
Normal Muslims like the one quoted above , like all of the 7.7 bombers whose families were “unaware “ of their involvement .” Normal Muslims all over London that deny 7.7 ever happened
I `m sure they open up to you though.! There are some moderate Muslims and they are useful idiots for the large minority of those that hat e this country and the tacitly approving majority. They are often Lords or academics and understand less than anyone of their religion-Can I suggest you get out of what can only be your disappearingly small social circle and start to question your puerile presumption that you know better than anyone lese. .
The effect is comic ,which is as kind as I can be under the circumstances.Your respect would concern me if anything .It is worth nothing and the 'left" is dying . Thats why you are here.State control has failed and that is why you are left with your hatred of the white working class and the country.You call this being "nice"
Blimey that was fun ...I think I`ll post it
"There are some moderate Muslims and they are useful idiots for the large minority of those that hat e this country and the tacitly approving majority."
you say, but even your statistics (partisan as they were) suggest the moderates are a majority, not a minority. You were almost lucid for a while, pal - but not for long enough
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