Friday, July 06, 2007

Religious Intolerance is a Good Thing

Browns Constitutional Reforms were , in my view , a mixture of window dressing and omission but I have been interested to browse the thoughts of Cramner and Caroline Hunt amongst others . HG picked up that “The Leader has refused to countenance constitutional reforms lifting formal and very real disabilities from members of the Catholic faith in England “ and this started me thinking about “religious intolerance “ now and in the past. I 1`m afraid I am back to the old tactic of posting something solid at the weekend and any old rubbish in the week.. So don`t expect a lot of research if you look in.

Reply to HG

What if my religion requires me to kill members of other "decadent" faiths or betray the country I live in . I think it is too easy to dismiss religious intolerance as absurd and we do it because we have forgotten what real faith is .When I read accounts of people from other times I notice that default belief in heaven and hell nested in an urbane and educated mind is almost impossible for the modern paradigm to simultaneously contain. You draw back in astonishment when a supersophisticate would nonetheless rather burn than spend an eternity in a hell that is as real as breakfast to him .The horror of Popery is hard empathise with now but we should try not to dismiss it as ignorant “prejudice” that loathsome and in this case anachronistic word

This arrogance of chronology is why the West has persisted in its misunderstanding of Islam. It is a misunderstanding of the nature of faith and that is why Liberal plural societies can only exist happily in a relatively homogenous cultural accord. There is no deal to be done and personally I would like to see more religious persecution rather than less albeit of a modern persuasive kind . Immigration is clearly a related issue.

We are sometimes appalled at the devastation to cultural artefacts wrought by religious upheaval and that is because we have come to see such things as having no function other than to entertain . To those who destroyed Catholic gaudiness they were functioning weapons of the dark one . I recall HG you were somewhat against the burning of books . I would be happy for all sorts of books to be burnt because they can also be weapons . Liberty and freedom , to conclude , are very much more nuanced concepts than Liberals would have us believe. The freedom of poetry is coextensive with its rules as is the harmony of music

On the Brown bits and pieces however I think they are probably only there to provide cover for the EU non vote , continued regionalisation despite the clearest rejection and turning Nelson`s blind eye to the problem of English votes . If the Conservative Party can get above 265 seats which I am, certain they will how will Brown govern in England . His laws will have no ....oh whats the word HG....they will have no thingy.

I imagine you may now be wafting elegantly in the mystic stillness of the Italian morning HG, brooding on the world’s troubles

Devo andare adesso.



Stan Bull said...

As this post was written during the week does it fall into the "any old rubbish" category. If it does, it's quality crap, N.
Gordo's constitutional pot pourri, is as you say,a wee device to distract the masses from the real isssue which ought to be a referendum on the EU constitution redux.
Actually, I doubt if Gordo needs to waste any time repealing the Act of Settlement as I am sure European Law trumps it anyway.
I would question the legality of clearly discriminating against this one popular branch of christianity, is there another religious group today for whom such legislation would even be given the time of day?
Could we ever hope to legislate against, eg a Muslim ascending the British throne?

Old BE said...

Mr N I have to disagree with burning even deeply violent books and ones and inciting or hatred and violence. Surely a civilised society argues logically against such incivility rather than just banning things we don't think are very nice?

My skin crawled when I heard DC asking for that sect to be banned - more rigorous would be to expose the idiocy of what they preach. This goes for the BNP and others as well.

Newmania said...

Could we ever hope to legislate against, eg a Muslim ascending the British throne?

I don`t think such legislation would be required although I take your point . I am increasingly wondering if perhaps a few chaps from the army say might like to suggest to her majesty that she dispense with parliament altogether.
Well not really but its suprising with what equanimity one can consider the HOP drifting down the Thames.That is after all what many of its occupants seem to want .

( Yes this is mid week nonsense)

Newmania said...

BTW . I do wish if yo are going to disappear you would mention it . Many thought you were dead

Newmania said...

Mr N I have to disagree with burning even deeply violent books and ones and inciting or hatred and violence.

You overestimate logic . Would you have images of child rape and live executions available at Tescos? I assume not , its only a question of where you draw the line then . Haven`t we seen that fatally conflicting beleifs cannot live peacefully together.

Do we not see that when there is true conflict a Liberal state is not possible . The arguement is convincingly made in Cash Nexus .Its a paradox I know and i always think ofGolda Meir " Every society must negotiate with its value " .

Anonymous said...

I have written a poem for you Mr Newman.

It is called "Serpent in the Grass". It may never see the light of day...

Newmania said...

Alright Mutley slowly I am getting sucked back into your churning cauldron of whatever it is

Old BE said...

But child rape and executions are illegal in their own right so people would be mad to publish a video of themselves doing it for fear of being prosecuted for the actual act!

Newmania said...

Are you saying we should not see images of illegal acts then Ed...robbery...crime ... for example ?

Old BE said...

Nope! If people want to make and sell video compilations like "most violent ever bank robberies" then that's up to them. Perhaps they should be restricted to adults though...

Newmania said...

But if the child rape and the robbery were both fictional .If it was only the image.

You can allow any bopok only where you know noone will pay much attention. That the truth . I see no distinction of kind between word and act. it is only a matter of context and force. Books therefore are just as prescribable as acts if less often .

Old BE said...

I'm not sure how you would make a fictitious child rape video! But if you could (and wanted to) by using consenting adults then what's the difference between someone watching it and fantasising about it?

This example is a bit "thought experiment" for my liking. As for books I don't see any harm in publishing a book with instructions on how to make a bomb and drive it into an airport - after all such information is probably easily available already. You've got to try and get people to not *want* to blow things up - or not let the people who might want to in.

Electro-Kevin said...

Look no further than the most recent I'm a Celebrity for the Truth.

Not only did the chap who leapt out of a helicopter on a bunjee shout out "Oh my fucking God !" but he went on to win the show and five million quid.

And then the incredibly shaggable Mylene Klass is esconsed, not with a Royal Marines Officer or Consultant Paediatrician or, better still, ME ... but with some drug dealing turd with the IQ of a toilet brush.

I like religious intolerance - in fact we should all be intolerant of it.

(Your topics always make meee soooo angry, Newmania ;-) )

Newmania said...

Oh alright Ed we won`t burn any books then....blast

EK ..noone puts it like you do.I avoid celebrity and reality , its isn1t easy

Old BE said...

Not so much intolerant of it as happy to expose the myth.

I think there are a lot of Christian values that are worth following, but blind faith in a Creator who watches our every move? There probably is not one.

CityUnslicker said...

Immigration is indeed the key Mr N. The allowance of truly backward and medieval religous beliefs into a modern and tolerant society has clearly proved 'difficult.'

Anonymous said...

There are plenty of "rape" scenes in movies - many are horrible -like the one in "Straw Dogs" - also all this torture porn which is about right now called things like "Saw"... I hate it all personally.

Newmania said...

There are gratuitous torture scnes in Shakespeare and they are scarcely ever absent from Jacobean Drama. I `m not sure what I make lf it really

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