Monday, March 19, 2007

Back to Iraq




As I was saying , I was chatting with thinly veiled acrimony, to an International Aid worker ,and he was telling me how terrible Iraq was in the traditional sobbing tones. He had recently been to the country, and claimed that the US were killing more civilians than the delicately titled “ Insurgents” , as in ,Al Qaeda and Bathist murderers.
This seems most unlikely to me and I `d be interested in anyone’s views on the relative murderousness of the US army and the factions. Anyway this conversation caused me to return to the subject of Iraq. I had conclcuded the Liberals were right but for the wrong reasons , but now I `m not so sure .
In the Sun today there is a quote from a Poll conducted by the Opinion Research Business. Of 5000 Iraqis polled six out of ten deny they are living though a civil war experience .49% say their lives were better since the war and only 26% said that they were better off under the old ogre . The rest were undecided or said it was about the same . So very nearly twice as many actual Iraqis as not, believe the war has been a benefit. Considering that under Saddam Hussein there was no hope of any change for the better ever, we are obviously on the right track.

I have never felt that improving the world was the main reason for going into Iraq. The motivation for us , was always to support America ,and therby maintain our Global security . However, if we have also achieved an improvement in the lives of the Iraqi people as well , why is it that there is such wide spread agreement that this was a dreadful mistake?

John Howard’s Australia , a country I increasingly admire , take a very different view .They are increasing troops for Iraq and they remain committed to the fight for democracy in the Arab World . Their splendidly Politically incorrect Foreign minister Alexander Downer has been robust in his contempt for the appeasers and apologists like us .

For those who think that the war has made the world a more dangerous place he simply remarks “..thats like saying let Hitler take France and that will secure things a little more..”. Here are some more refreshingly candid remarks from down under

1Guntanamo ( and the lack of trials)- Downing

‘…You are entitled to hold those who are engage in hostilities against you until the end of that war. …you tie your hands behind your back if you treat this as a normal breach of law. “Law” enforcement, does not protect our community ‘

2 Muslims in Australia ( Peter Costello Treasurer)

‘…Basically people who don`t want to be Australians and they don`t want to live by Australian values and understand them , well they can basically clear off !”

3 Democracy and the Arab World ( Why the war has reduced Terrorism)- Downing

“ partly this is because the Indonesian government has promoted the idea of moderate Islam . The world `s largest Islamic country is a vigorous democracy where people are able to dissent….that’s why I believe that democracy is an important way of defeating terror . The claim that the” Brown guys”, don`t do democracy is just outrageous . So if you happen to be Arab or Asian you are supposed to enjoy oppression? Just bring on the evidence “

Crucially , they see domestic multiculturalism as part of the war . In a series of tough immigration and citizenship measures they are ensuring that Australia has the will to protect itself. The department of Immigration and Multicultural affairs has been tellingly renamed The Department of immigration and citizen ship”.
Australians see Iraq as part of world wide battle for freedom , and this includes within Australia . This is exactly the same way large parts of Islam see it “.As an eternal battle between belief and non belief “ …by belief they mean theirs.

The enemy are are more than happy with the role and the Bathists did think the Arabs only functioned with un-thinking love rather than critical thought. The only people who disagree seem to be Guardianistas of the West .

This invertebrate appeasement at the first sign of difficulty is really decadent self loathing as patented by the originator of all Fisks , Robert Fiske .
Once being stoned, mugged , brutally attacked and left bleeding in the dust on the Afghan Pakistan Border this was what he wrote,
” I understood, I couldn’t blame them for what they were doing. In fact if I were the Afghan Refugees of Kila Abdullah , …., I would have done just the same to Robert Fiske or any other Westerner I could find …”…the attacker was “ Innocent of any crime except that of being a victim of the world “

Personal responsibility is gone and the implicit assumption is that almost any barbarity is forgivable in what Mr. Downing calls. “The brown Guys “. Every time we show weakness we encourage our enemies and I begin to see that we have let Liberal bleeding heart doubts infect us almost without noticing .

14 comments:

CoralPoetry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Newmania said...

Jesus it wasn`t me Coral ..she has th wrong place

CoralPoetry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Newmania said...

No probs ...( just confusion)

The Ludingtonian said...

N -

Well, having got coralpoetry's rant out of the way, I have to say that your postings, while never less than interesting, remind me of both my brother and a certain church organist I once knew.

My brother, now a famous doctor of mathematics, regarded punctuation as purely decorative and thus scattered such punctuation marks as he deemed appropriate across his essays with gay abandon.

Maureen the organist, on the other hand, seemed to take an existentialist approach to organisting. That is to say, she appeared to believe that it didn't matter so much which note she played, as long as she made the decision to play a note.

Sartre would have congratulated the lot of you.

That said, you're talking a hell of a lot sense here.

electro-kevin said...

Interesting responses here. I like Ludingtonian's much.

Back to Iraq if one may ...

A pity the dead don't talk.

I feel our reason for thinking that Iraq went badly is something to do with the fact that the aftermath didn't go as planned - planned ??? - that the Iraqis were expected to have welcomed the troops as conquering heroes and embraced western democracy.

What sort of people conduct polls ? I did the 10 year census once and it was such a headache that I'd be surprised if there hadn't been a lot of artistic input into it across the country - now imagine a similar exercise in a place like Iraq.

Any information on Opinion Research Business ? After all, we know of at one market researcher cosy with Gordon Brown.

Newmania said...

Remember Lud I have to write these in double quick time at work and I am not by any means a typist.

I `ll have a look over this one aactually I think its inconsiderate not to check over but I just dont have the time

Newmania said...

Kev hi , well I was quoting the Sun so it must be true. More to the point I have been reading about what was going on during the old rebgime . Frankly Hell would be better and I guess thats pretty much what they have.


It isn`t a happy place either way

CityUnslicker said...

This is a super post and a fitting tribute to our antipodean friends.

I wonder what the Tory policy would be in Iraq. If Broon were to hold an election we may even find out this yeat.

I worry that Cameron would not have the convictions of his superior advisers like hague.

He could well be a cut and run merchant. Although Blair discovered a taste for war, maybe Cameron will too?

Newmania said...

Thanks CU I appreciate that from you especially , i would o a lot better if I didn’t have to write
whilst hiding behind my computer

‘He could well be a cut and run merchant. Although Blair discovered a taste for war, maybe Cameron will too’

Did you see the programme about Blair it all happened for him when he first sent the Troops in and it worked.... From then on he saw himself as part of a great game .
I do not have serious complaints about what Tony he has done . I know the army have been poorly equipped but that is only business as usual You have to remember that our Antipodean chums are uniquely vulnerable as they perceive it, to the majority of cultures in their environs that are to a greater or lesser extent antagonistic .

We needn’t be quite so tied to Americas apron strings but we should , in my view , not be so riven with guilt about everything we achieve . It was the domestic agenda that interested me mostly as a necessary part of maintaining the will, to defend your self and your way of life

electro-kevin said...

I would feel so much better if I didn't think that Mr Blair was a total narcissist.

Newmania said...

he is isn1t he Kev and weak.Thats what this government has been . The least primcipled government I can remember it s all about the way it looks not what it is from top to bottom

Caroline Hunt said...

I thought you didn't like foreign things?

electro-kevin said...

I think he's becoming more educated on matters abroad through his forrays onto Croydonian, Caroline - perhaps we can expect more 'foreign' to come.

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