tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post7344190126054217137..comments2024-01-30T09:22:08.167+00:00Comments on Newmania In Lewes: Poltical Language ( Ask the Focus Group )Newmaniahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-15372097247043712007-02-26T14:48:00.000+00:002007-02-26T14:48:00.000+00:00As ever, you are too kind _ from one who merely po...As ever, you are too kind _ from one who merely posts to one who actually hosts, it is I who am in awe of you! (but you seem to have a peculiar take on Brecht, which we must discuss another time!)<BR/>Yes, let's keep Dizonian and bring him out to play occasionally! I picture him with the magnificent mane and sneering lip of a Beethoven _ and the yellow socks of our own dear C!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-1126029653665184282007-02-26T14:41:00.000+00:002007-02-26T14:41:00.000+00:00Thanks David what natural style you have My God! A...Thanks David what natural style you have <BR/><BR/>My God! A Labour government is actually going to do what Thatcher and Major never got around to!" but the rest.... <BR/><BR/>Like that.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I am glad that the Dizonians of this world exist, to keep the flame and to keep the rest of us honest. But theirs is an approach which should inform but not determine practical politics, <BR/><BR/><BR/>Like that to .<BR/><BR/>In fact this little thread has some of the best comments I`ve ever had and , pathetic though it may be ,I am rather pleased about that. Lets keep Dizonian shall weNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-22050230289943700352007-02-26T14:20:00.000+00:002007-02-26T14:20:00.000+00:00Wonderful post, N! A bracing canter thru the world...Wonderful post, N! A bracing canter thru the world according to Dave. And your new hybrid, 'Dizonian', is a splendid creation _ and a credit to whoever inspired him _ to whatever extent!<BR/>Personally, I am glad that the Dizonians of this world exist, to keep the flame and to keep the rest of us honest. But theirs is an approach which should inform but not determine practical politics, as you say. However, if a DC premiership really did just involve tinkering rather than major change then I, and I suspect many others with "their eye on that villa in the sun" will just accelerate our plans as fast as we can. I spent the Thatcher years marvelling at her/colleagues success in reshaping the economy but getting increasingly bewildered at the failure to get to grips with the societal/ cultural rot engendered by the welfare state and the underclass it created, which was apparent even a quarter of a century ago. Like N, when I heard Frank Field was to be the Welfare man in Blair's first govt., I thought: "My God! A Labour government is actually going to do what Thatcher and Major never got around to!" but the rest....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-91189423780311966282007-02-26T14:18:00.000+00:002007-02-26T14:18:00.000+00:00I had't realised how influential dizzy was and am ...I had't realised how influential dizzy was and am sad to report that my political innocence must be wearing off:<BR/><BR/>That does happen and Guidot has a superb post up at the moment . Dizzy gets stuff in the national Press and so deos Croydonian.#<BR/><BR/>They are proper bloggersNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-56167961462843059352007-02-26T14:08:00.000+00:002007-02-26T14:08:00.000+00:00Hi N, I do seem to be getting a few complaints tha...Hi N, I do seem to be getting a few complaints that I'm not attacking Lefties enough. Truth is I'm pacing myself for closer to the May elections.Praguetoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16520923731691837948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-51906979446932347562007-02-26T13:22:00.000+00:002007-02-26T13:22:00.000+00:00Hope nobody thinks I'm a socialist.I have always b...Hope nobody thinks I'm a socialist.<BR/><BR/>I have always been aware that the middle-class is crucial to civilised society. When I said I'd sooner be a 1984 prole I meant it in the sense that at least they had order and clean streets.<BR/><BR/>I had't realised how influential dizzy was and am sad to report that my political innocence must be wearing off:<BR/><BR/>I started with 'excellent essay ...' <BR/><BR/>Can I ammend that in view of the forgoing ?<BR/><BR/>'Bye 'eck N - that woz shit !'<BR/><BR/>Joke of course.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Yes I was teacher's pet and I've had a thing about her ever since (crikey - she must be knocking on 60 now !)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-46790096482492012007-02-26T12:28:00.000+00:002007-02-26T12:28:00.000+00:00hallo Prague I am keeping up with your goings on ...hallo Prague I am keeping up with your goings on and enjoy your lefty baiting forays when i come upon them <BR/>( which I haven`t for while now actually )Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-47990447131479270302007-02-26T12:26:00.000+00:002007-02-26T12:26:00.000+00:00Sadly all I can deliver is rhetoric - as usual. Yo...Sadly all I can deliver is rhetoric - as usual. <BR/><BR/><BR/>You have a remarkable capacity for expression kev I expect you were the teachers pet at creative writing. What I like about this little thread is that between you and Mutley there is a view that comes from outside the "political" obsessive world .<BR/><BR/>I think you are like me I see things that are wrong but the view I Take of it is quite in flux and can be swayed by things like style a remark or a manner. Thats what real people are like they have not got a big answer and I must try to remeber to stop pretending that I think I do.<BR/><BR/>When it comes down to it though I do not think you show yourself to be a caring person by taking someone elses money and giving it away. Without Liberty there us no way to be good . That is one of the corrupting effects of statist Policy.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I do think Mutley`s point about the way it actually feels to have nothing is so important though and is absent form thes virtual corridors to much of the time.<BR/><BR/>( Christ I hope the Hitch doesn1t pop in I `ll be for it )Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-54917993259035398262007-02-26T12:18:00.000+00:002007-02-26T12:18:00.000+00:00Well said Mutley..I think you abslolutely have it ...Well said Mutley..I think you abslolutely have it we cannot be people that only care about ourselves. I believe that under certain circumstances that benefits are actively bad but your comments are a breath of fresh air.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-60332874917326255802007-02-26T11:45:00.000+00:002007-02-26T11:45:00.000+00:00'self-destructs'There appears to be a dichotomy on...'self-destructs'<BR/><BR/>There appears to be a dichotomy on this one - there is often mention of the polarasation of wealth in the UK and remember that we have just been placed bottom on the league for bringing up children. Relegation in prospect ??? This bothers me - genuinely concerned about it.<BR/><BR/>I can't complain much myself at the moment though I haven't had a proper holiday for 3 years (unless you consider tenting as such); 'twas the same for my parents though and they were my intellectual superiors so I don't grumble.<BR/><BR/>There is a lot of personal debt, there is not a lot of manufacturing (adding value to base materials) Nearby we export China Clay, predict the weather (the met office) and drink a lot of beer in Weatherspoons. The cows don't seem happy that their milk is so undervalued. Yes the City is thriving and I put this down to our open attitude to immigration (I am at home with multi-ethnicity - it's all I've known and my move to white Devon was a culture shock, I'm serious.) It is also down to the economic whoring of our country and our willingness to drop our knickers.<BR/><BR/>House prices are booming and this is my pet bug-bear. Since when did housing become the primary commodity (as it seems to be now)?It was meant to be where you lived when you MADE a commodity. We don't have this and yet there appears to be a lot of 'economic' hubub about grim looking terraced houses and pokey flat conversions: estate agents flog 'em, sparkies wire 'em, chippies chip 'em ... blah-de-blah and then go 'round clogging up our streets with white vans with drain pipes stuck on their roof-racks.<BR/><BR/>Now for some people this might pass as an 'economy' for me it doesn't (I'm a house owner BTW)- people think 'Wahay - we're in da munneee...' then put their houses into hock in order to buy up cheap Chinese goods by the shipload. I have resolved not to use a credit card and live frugally, and yet I find my finances squeezed further and further like what seems every month.<BR/><BR/>Not complaining.<BR/><BR/>The down side:<BR/><BR/>- An awful lot of chavness, gangstersim litter, rudeness, graffiti - increasing violence, ignorance, dependancy, drugs... <BR/><BR/>- A lot of emmigration of homegrown skilled resources; Aus gets our nurses whilst we take on Phillipinos. A fair deal for us ?<BR/><BR/>- A lot of Barrat style housing developments and a reduction in living space which is not featured in comparisons of weath between generations. Admittedly we are not coal mining/cotton mill standards ...yet.<BR/><BR/>- A distraction from Blairist encroachment on our liberties.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that many of the people you mention who consider things to be going well have their eye on that villa in the sun.<BR/><BR/>As for me - I'd rather be a 1984 prole. You see - what we have is a very laisses faire ('scuse spelling) economy which fails to give us any cogency and a political class that rides the wave as precariously as a body-boarder on a surf-board (heads-up Mutley). They manage to deliver both the worst of the socialist state(control) and the worst of the capitalist (anarchy) at the same time ...<BR/><BR/>...how cool is that ???<BR/><BR/><BR/>Cameron ? More of the same ?<BR/><BR/>Not all of us measure our wealth in terms of money. You don't N, I'm mightily impressed (and envious) of your ability with literature. <BR/><BR/>Sadly all I can deliver is rhetoric - as usual.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-53832619545769043392007-02-26T11:16:00.000+00:002007-02-26T11:16:00.000+00:00I read it all with great interest and the comments...I read it all with great interest and the comments from different people as well. I have to say that I do think DC is doing it right. One of the main problems with the tories in recent years is how unfriendly, unsympathetic and basically uncaring about peoples problems thay have seemed to be <BR/><BR/>e.g <I>"DC could be left floundering by Brown where DC has actually and concretely given in to socialist/statist policies. Like supporting and even wishing to raise the minimum wage."</I><BR/><BR/>Have you ever tried living on the minimum wage? Its awful believe me, starvation time almost. But the comment here is supposed to criticise the idea of a minimum wage itself, a perfectly reasonable point of view and one I share, but it comes across sounding like those on the minimum wage already have plenty of cash, and don't need any rise. Thats sounds or seems very unfriendly and unsympathetic, and disconnected from the experiences of millions of Britons. <BR/>Do you get my point?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-12653011464041227542007-02-26T11:05:00.000+00:002007-02-26T11:05:00.000+00:00Hi Newmania. Hope all is well. I am not a libertar...Hi Newmania. Hope all is well. I am not a libertarian, but can agree with our libertarian friends on 90 to 95% of their attacks on Labour. Hope to meet you in the flesh one day.Praguetoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16520923731691837948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-60640703930787415582007-02-26T10:31:00.000+00:002007-02-26T10:31:00.000+00:00not much is being done as our country self-destruc...not much is being done as our country self-destructs.<BR/><BR/> You might be suprised how many people think things are actually not too bad remember that we have had the longest period of sustained growth in the countrries history and there is a a lot of wealth about in absolute terms .<BR/><BR/>I wouldn`t worry about. being "Publically derided". par for the course , a day rarely goes by when I am not .Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-3536753517220950572007-02-26T09:36:00.000+00:002007-02-26T09:36:00.000+00:00Newmania - an excellent essay along with the writi...Newmania - an excellent essay along with the writing you posted on Ms Smack about your meeting with bloggers.<BR/><BR/>I've been publicly derrided by Peter Hitchens (MoS) for suggesting that the Conservatives could regain power by the Trojan Horse method - do I infer too much "wish list in my back pocket" ?<BR/>He countered that "... disguised parties are the stuff of banana republics." and that Mr Cameron holds traditional Conservatives in contempt. <BR/><BR/>Elsewhere I have stated that "we all know the manifesto that would lead to a landslide victory" Mr Cameron certainly doesn't seem to be offering this, unless I've missed it.<BR/><BR/>I feel he wants a victory but for nothing else to change very much.<BR/>Good grief.<BR/><BR/>He does seem to be a slick media operator though. But could it be that what we see on the tin is exactly what is inside it - Like Blair before him, will he spend his time curtailing the 'extremist' tendancies in his group - that's you that is !<BR/><BR/>A couple of points:<BR/><BR/>- Iraq is such a quagmire that there is not much alternative but to criticise the invasion now. The sad thing is that so many people of different persuasions predicted this.<BR/><BR/>- (your 9.13pm) Social breakdown wasn't 'invented' - all it took was a loosening of ties and for everyone to stand back and watch, including the Conservatives.<BR/><BR/>My angst is that - while I agree political intrigue, sculduggery etc is fascinating - not much is being done as our country self-destructs.<BR/><BR/>Do we have time for anything other than directness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-72387291680343228742007-02-26T00:11:00.000+00:002007-02-26T00:11:00.000+00:00When Broon emerges with a fully formed plan, it is...When Broon emerges with a fully formed plan, it is possible that Cameron will be left floundering. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I am not concerned about Broon especially as I can`t see him carrying the Labour Party with any electable plan.You are right that we are in a phoney war now though and being to smug is probably not a good ideaNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-16183756026885630462007-02-26T00:09:00.000+00:002007-02-26T00:09:00.000+00:00That pee'd off a heck of a lot of people, and stil...That pee'd off a heck of a lot of people, and still left Blair and Co to claim that DC was either currently or in the future going to "isolate" the country in "Europe". <BR/><BR/>I am hard put to think of what he could have done that would not have pee`d of a lot of people though AL. My hope is that whatever he says now will look very differet a few years from now in exactly the way it did for Tony Blair.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-6710406951865469192007-02-25T23:23:00.000+00:002007-02-25T23:23:00.000+00:00That was a very interesting post, Newmania.And for...That was a very interesting post, Newmania.<BR/><BR/>And for an old Thatcherite, Tebbitite, Hefferite, UKIP-ite right-wing libertarian Conservative like me, I agree that Cameron's strategy has in some respects worked quite well. <BR/><BR/>Be nice and polite to your enemies.<BR/><BR/>Try to sound reasonable, calm and mild-mannered. Don't frighten the horses.<BR/><BR/>Don't "attack" single mothers - criticise the dads who abandon them.<BR/><BR/>I often think that I would myself have deployed quite a bit of DC's strategy had I been leader...<BR/><BR/>But, City Unslicker had a good point that DC could be left floundering by Brown where DC has actually and concretely given in to socialist/statist policies. Like supporting and even wishing to raise the minimum wage.<BR/><BR/>Like supporting membership of the EU when it is clear that from trade to defence to healthcare the takeover is advancing at a very rapid pace.<BR/><BR/>And DC's failure over the EPP issue was JUST PLAIN STUPID AND FOOLISH. He really shouldn't have given the promise and then welched. That pee'd off a heck of a lot of people, and still left Blair and Co to claim that DC was either currently or in the future going to "isolate" the country in "Europe".Arthurian Legendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10938610415894666049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-40226316004189105472007-02-25T22:34:00.000+00:002007-02-25T22:34:00.000+00:00yikes. These things are best left said after a few...yikes. These things are best left said after a few beers....<BR/><BR/>on the other hand, I am not so convinced that the CVameron approach is unstoppabble. It has many positives, but a lack of clear policies is the first step to him losing any case to be a strong leader. When Broon emerges with a fully formed plan, it is possible that Cameron will be left floundering.CityUnslickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15929544047783163175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-26203656689324888982007-02-25T22:02:00.001+00:002007-02-25T22:02:00.001+00:00Phew!!!!! Well thats a relief.Phew!!!!! Well thats a relief.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-63146221785656270532007-02-25T22:02:00.000+00:002007-02-25T22:02:00.000+00:00oh yes, and I am a political obsessive.oh yes, and I <I>am</I> a political obsessive.dizzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250325010662356883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-28485499502705622682007-02-25T21:56:00.000+00:002007-02-25T21:56:00.000+00:00Can I just say that I didn't take the above post a...Can I just say that I didn't take the above post as a criticism of me at all. <BR/><BR/>Newmania and I had a healthy discussion the other night and I just saw it as a continuance.<BR/><BR/>Newmania, don't be such a silly arsehead, you have not offended me, and don't start apologising for things that you havn't done, otherwise I will have to start calling you Tony and you don't want that do you?<BR/><BR/>I guess I probably sounded agressive in my comment as well to be fair, not deliberate just my style online really. Plus I have thought about what we were talking about as well.dizzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250325010662356883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-59451341405995018192007-02-25T21:13:00.001+00:002007-02-25T21:13:00.001+00:00'Anti-social behaviour' was a new-Labour invention...'Anti-social behaviour' was a new-Labour invention, but has never been opposed by the tories or tory councils. Now Red-Ken has grown up and become London mayor, grown-up loony-left propaganda is drip-fed to young Londoners<BR/><BR/>Now thats a very interestng point and its soemthing I have noticed. Old labour never went away.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-42364291158438738712007-02-25T21:13:00.000+00:002007-02-25T21:13:00.000+00:00'Anti-social behaviour' was a new-Labour invention...'Anti-social behaviour' was a new-Labour invention, but has never been opposed by the tories or tory councils. Now Red-Ken has grown up and become London mayor, grown-up loony-left propaganda is drip-fed to young Londoners<BR/><BR/>Now thats a very interestng point and its soemthing I have noticed. Old labour never went away.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-4570297337045815132007-02-25T21:11:00.000+00:002007-02-25T21:11:00.000+00:00I DID NOT MEAN TO CRITICISE DIZZY WHO RUNS A PROPE...I DID NOT MEAN TO CRITICISE DIZZY WHO RUNS A PROPER BLOG THAT IS RESPECTED BY JOUNALISTS NOT A PART TIME NOONE CARES WHINGE SPACE LIKE THIS...and I have no ambitions even try to get to that level<BR/><BR/>I am about to a hasty edit to make that quite clear I have obviously sounded far more literal and serious than I meant to be as far as that was concerned. IT was a bit of a mistake , what can I say......Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-35215364269556834912007-02-25T21:04:00.000+00:002007-02-25T21:04:00.000+00:00Dizzy is right to point out that London is a diffe...Dizzy is right to point out that London is a different kettle of fish than the rest of the country. These recent shootings have highlighted that the politcal classes react differently to events in London than say Birmingham or Nottingham.<BR/><BR/>I've worked in a London local authority before, an ex-loony-left authority. What has happened in London is that the lonny-left have grown up. Back in the eighties Southwark council banned staff from eating Del-Monte or shopping at Boots because of supposed links to South Africa. Now councils promote 'fairtrade' products against local competition, even tory councils have jumped on the bandwagon.<BR/><BR/>'Anti-social behaviour' was a new-Labour invention, but has never been opposed by the tories or tory councils. Now Red-Ken has grown up and become London mayor, grown-up loony-left propaganda is drip-fed to young Londoners. <BR/><BR/>Central control has reached new heights, be it the EU, what was the ODPM, the Mayor's office, local opinions are ridden roughshot over. Policy comes from international quangos, think-tanks and lobby groups. It is harder now for people to become involved in politcs, and because of all the other distractions of the modern world easier to switch off from it.<BR/><BR/>You say:<BR/><BR/>'I seriously hope you aren’t expecting me to take any of this as other than mood music though, because the point of winning is to enact policies and I do have a Consevative agenda tucked in my back pocket'<BR/><BR/>Don't expect all that much to change if you want my advice. So much is now dictated from the EU, WHO and UN, globalisation dictates the state of the world economy more than ever too. <BR/><BR/>I'm hoping he'll abolish tax credits and raise personal allowances but I'm not holding my breath.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com