tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post4080805135133576263..comments2024-01-30T09:22:08.167+00:00Comments on Newmania In Lewes: A Fire Raging in IslingtonNewmaniahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-62955969594761913112007-02-05T21:58:00.000+00:002007-02-05T21:58:00.000+00:00I certainly didn't come here to proselytize. Needl...I certainly didn't come here to proselytize. Needless to say I still can't bring myself to vote Conservative. I hope that I am still welcome here and...<br /><br /><br />Know what you mean .I joined the Conservative Party about three years ago .In fact I am fairly right wing but I still found is embarassing.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-44693375187732359862007-02-05T19:05:00.000+00:002007-02-05T19:05:00.000+00:00That's a relief, Philipa ...
... now go one furth...That's a relief, Philipa ...<br /><br />... now go one further and tell me I look youthful enough to get in the Young Conservatives.<br /><br />(I promise to make my political comments more compact in future, folks.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-8604164900307842292007-02-04T23:54:00.000+00:002007-02-04T23:54:00.000+00:00Kev - no worries; I'm not Rev Mullock and don't se...Kev - no worries; I'm not Rev Mullock and don't seek to direct your vote by emotional blackmail. Actually I mostly agree with you.Philipahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440234602399886097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-72482004751148341822007-02-04T21:47:00.000+00:002007-02-04T21:47:00.000+00:00Ha ha.
I've read the Hitchens you're talking abou...Ha ha.<br /><br />I've read the Hitchens you're talking about.<br /><br />He's very funny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-83886098034591057972007-02-04T20:29:00.000+00:002007-02-04T20:29:00.000+00:00Kev, we have been most comically at cross-purposes...Kev, we have been most comically at cross-purposes, see<br /><br />http://www.peterhitchens.blogspot.com<br /><br />The Hitch I referred to is a frequent and *much loved* (but just <i>occasionally</i> foul-mouthed) (and witty and imaginative) visitor to this and several other related sites.<br /><br />It is he with whom I have previous: (although many years ago I had dealing s with 'your' PH also).<br /><br />I shan't be replying at any great length just now, but stick around on mr mania's site and I'm sure we'll talk again. Also (<i>inter alia</i>) the excellent and courteous Croydonian at<br /><br />http://www.croydonian.blogspot.com<br /><br />where mania, hitch and I and several other ne'er-do-wells often hang out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-10670456201826478952007-02-04T17:41:00.000+00:002007-02-04T17:41:00.000+00:00Peter Hitchens ?
Frequently generous with respons...Peter Hitchens ?<br /><br />Frequently generous with responses, sometimes snappy ('specially when I told him once that I was going to vote Conservative - arghhh !!!)<br /><br />Don't doubt the man's compassion towards victims of crime, the sincerity of his Faith or the depth of his hatred of New Labour.<br /><br />Did I say 'sparring'? Er, Bambi Vs Godzilla if you get the picture.<br /><br />But of course I kept my sanity ...<br /><br />... I just wish the voices would go away.<br /><br />(Neeyahahahh !)<br /><br />Thanks for the chat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-56081108197604213692007-02-04T14:27:00.000+00:002007-02-04T14:27:00.000+00:00Thanks.
Peter Hitchens today laments the death of...Thanks.<br /><br />Peter Hitchens today laments the death of the true Conservative Party and exhorts that the New Conservative party make way for something else altogether.<br /><br />I asked PH about a year ago if he really thought that there was a populist party in waiting and I did not get a response, ergo I am left to assume that it is to be made up of people like me. Heaven forbid ! That would be disasterous - I'm incapable in such matters.<br /><br />You're the best we've got I'm afraid.<br /><br />I don't hold that the members of the present Conservative Party are much different to those of 20 years ago, but looking over this recent discourse I gleen an admission that the Party's nature is dictated by what is acceptable to, what the tabloids might call, 'The Guardianistas'.<br /><br />Another word that bothers me is 'inertia' - inertia means to me 'static'. Well what I'm witnessing here is most definately on the move with increasing rapidity and is what I would call 'progressive'.<br /><br />The 'edifice' that you talk of worries you a lot doesn't it ?<br /><br />I don't understand - why should an innocent desire for true democracy risk an 'edifice' falling on my head ???<br />Thanks for reassuring me that it won't be the Conservatives that pull it down; but pray tell ...<br /><br />...what enemies of freedom would do this ? Just exactly how dangerous and wicked are they ?<br /><br />Nick, if you don't have the time to deal with this then please forward it to someone who can.<br /><br />My email: kevinjpeat@btinternet.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-57650306213591626332007-02-04T11:06:00.000+00:002007-02-04T11:06:00.000+00:00Kev - if you are just off 4 years emailing with Hi...Kev - if you are just off 4 years emailing with Hitchens, then may I say your sanity is in great shape! 4 months with Hitch in Scotton Pinkney has done me lasting damage. <br /><br />Huge themes, so little time. So just a couple of points.<br /><br />Context: your original concern was that we all know what a populist manifesto would contain but it never sees the light of day.<br /><br />1. Need to distinguish between two 'hostile' forces in play <br /><br />- passive: the deadening effect of 'Establishment inertia', with what you identify as a liberal, anti-populist consensus <br /><br />- active: the successes of better-organised political opponents (who often adeptly utilise the former: but then, <i>so can we</i>! if we're clever)<br /><br />The latter may indeed be a motivated machine, acting secretively & subversively. The former isn't really like that, even though it may sometimes be manipulated for those purposes.<br /><br />In earlier posts I was talking about the former. And I still say we need to think carefully before undermining it fundamentally: history has some horrible lessons.<br /><br />2. Europe: I am not an expert on this, and it is clear enough that there is a highly-motivated strand of active leftist / statist effort to use European institutions to advance a very nasty cause.<br /><br />But it's not all one-way traffic. The EC Competition Directorate, for example, is extremely market-oriented and has several major successes to its name - and some active campaigns currently underway. Forthcoming events in Germany, and probably also France, could be very significant, one way or the other.<br /><br />But, as I say, many other folk know much more about that than I.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-57331135986929976492007-02-04T07:51:00.000+00:002007-02-04T07:51:00.000+00:00And finally ...
... I need to make a modification...And finally ...<br /><br />... I need to make a modification to that fictitious magnetised vehicle I was describing earlier:<br /><br />- It is ancient and it was 'not stripped appart', but as each component wore out and was replaced the new part was induced with magnatism, so much so that the vehicle - regardless of who is driving it - can now only travel in the direction of the compass point marked "Leftwards"<br /><br />Oh ...<br /><br />You can also have it in any colour you like so long as it is red.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-16965711668063135132007-02-04T01:23:00.000+00:002007-02-04T01:23:00.000+00:00Newmania, I've reverted to 'kev' as the solemnity ...Newmania, I've reverted to 'kev' as the solemnity I detect in your tone seems to render the rather jocular 'pafkak' innapropriate - please take my desire to use this handle as evidence that my intention was to revert to humour. And yet here am I about to embark on another unplanned epistle - my appologies to those who are bored by it and those who are wondering what the hell I'm going on about; after 4 years of sparring with Peter Hitchens via email I often wonder too.<br /><br />Newmania, none of us are anarchists and all of us yearn for an orderly transition of power; but at least in this yearning we acknowledge and agree that there is a power struggle going on.<br /><br />My belief is that our nation is at a perilous juncture and I can barely read or watch the daily news without feeling assailed by an establishment which could not be more offensive to me if it tried [lighten up, kevin] - in fact I sometimes feel that the offending of majority sensibilities is what it is all about.[I'm sure this is not what Philipa had in mind when she asked me here]<br /><br />Nick, I've had time to ruminate on your excellent explanation to me (9.24 am) and there are, in fact, one or two questions after all:<br /><br />- I am relieved that we agree that the 'fault in the machine' was not an invention of my overactive imagination. In fact I would liken institutionalised revolution to a vehicle that has been stripped down, its metal components induced magnetically and put back together so that everything is polarised and faces Leftwards.<br /><br />- I have difficulty with your definition of the word 'conservative' (small 'c'). Conservative to me means 'opposing change' - this is actually very different from what is going on. I would state here that what is going on is revolutionary, that topics that are being taken seriously nowadays would have been regarded as ridiculous even 10 years ago; that there are laws being passed in Statute, in precedent and in Europe which are iniquitous and repugnant to the common person and literally have jaws dropping. What people would have made of this 20 years ago I don't know. <br /><br />- You speak of an 'edifice collapsing' - such imagery does invoke an ominous feeling. If you were to call these people's bluff would they pull the rug from under it all to cause such destruction ....and ... if your answer is 'yes' then doesn't that tell us just how sinister they are ? And for that reason isn't it crucial that they are taken on ?<br /><br />Now for the big one: <br /><br />- I address this to all Conservative party members and I do not expect to solicit your replies, this is merely for your consideration: <br /><br /> Is the Conservative party the one you really wish to be in right now ? Are you sure that you are fighting in the right territory and that you have not been dragged to the left of the political spectrum without realising it ? <br /><br />I certainly didn't come here to proselytize. Needless to say I still can't bring myself to vote Conservative. I hope that I am still welcome here and...<br /><br />...my appologies to Philipa with whom I would have been perfectly happy just being a pen friend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-25117331767852131782007-02-03T20:15:00.000+00:002007-02-03T20:15:00.000+00:00You have to watch me, Newmania.
Being Bog Standar...You have to watch me, Newmania.<br /><br />Being Bog Standard Comp progeny I speak in a sort of Prescottarian Mangle-ese. And sorry for any malapropisms.<br /><br />KevAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-87756219581648908302007-02-03T18:40:00.000+00:002007-02-03T18:40:00.000+00:00I read and re read all of that. Pausing briefly to...I read and re read all of that. Pausing briefly to wonder what a normative thing was.( Now I know). Interesting ,and I think I was trying to get at the sort of points Nick was making . I am not an anarchist , because I value freedom and believe that rules are required for freedome to flourish. <br />My metaphor would be the sonnet form or any verse form.<br /><br />This is not the same as crushing everyone into flat bland estate agent prose..so to speak. <br /><br />Kev and Nick what a very revealing debate. It has that quality of telling me what I thought before but hadn`t quite put the words to.<br /><br />Kev , I have also thought there is a point when I am digging my heels in .If I wasn`t entranced by the "normative" incantation of daily life I might even do it.<br /><br />Sometimes it can be one small thing that changes everything,the snag in the nail,the hero`s fatal flaw.<br /><br />I hope for an orderly transition of power ......Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-42111233821472487462007-02-03T18:38:00.000+00:002007-02-03T18:38:00.000+00:00Thanks for the vote of confidence, Nick. But I'm...Thanks for the vote of confidence, Nick. But I'm seriously thinking of changing my name to one of these fancy handles that everyone has here.<br /><br />PAFKAK<br /><br />I'll leave you to work out the first 'P' - the rest is **** Artist Formerly Known As KevAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-12640260246330419432007-02-03T16:59:00.000+00:002007-02-03T16:59:00.000+00:00Mr mania, this Kev can come again!
Stick around, ...Mr mania, this Kev can come again!<br /><br />Stick around, KevAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-69889035740541294412007-02-03T13:28:00.000+00:002007-02-03T13:28:00.000+00:00What can I say, Nick. A brilliant explanation and...What can I say, Nick. A brilliant explanation and I have no questions to ask here.<br /><br />Please excuse my mawkishness in the previous. I get really amorous and romantic when I'm tired. The poor shunter - he's the one who has to go home and explain the love-bites to his missus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-1320322680332277512007-02-03T12:38:00.000+00:002007-02-03T12:38:00.000+00:00Hi Nick,
I haven't had time to give this the resp...Hi Nick,<br /><br />I haven't had time to give this the respect it deserves but promise to do so after I've had a kip. I really meant for my last submission to be a lot friendlier that it is - I expect you can see from the time of posting (4.48am)that I wasn't all their at the time. I find that I am able to sleep a lot better at work than I do at home - though this is a bit disconcerting for my passengers, I admit. :)<br /><br />Newmania - a fantastic blog, I know why Philipa likes it so. You said earlier "You have to follow the money." I'll take that in a literal and metaphoric sense. I have always tended to follow the beauty - being the romantic that I am - and to my cost it has taken me all these years to realise that these two things are not mutually exclusive.<br /><br />A strange thing to say ?<br /><br />I suppose I could tendentiously weave it into the fabric of this conversation on the grounds that some countries seem to manage to do exactly this. But that would be bollocks.<br /><br />Later.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-40560932991597998212007-02-03T09:24:00.000+00:002007-02-03T09:24:00.000+00:00Kev - don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the P...Kev - don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the Power is benign: I think I used the phrase 'dumb insolent' myself. And it can certainly have baleful, if not outright malign effects. Believe me, I've met people like your typist, and suffered from them. (Please don't think I'm bragging here: but I was once a committee-chair in a large borough, with a clear electoral mandate for change - and the practical difficulties in getting the council officers to carry out 'the will of the people' drove me to grey hairs, I can tell you. And I've seen it at senior levels in the Civil Service also.) <br /><br />What I was trying to do is fill out the picture. The two other aspects of the Power that I was drawing attention to were<br /><br />(a) in character it is often more like a suffocating muffle (sometimes warm and flattering, other times just bone-idle), rather than a machine-with-an-agenda<br /><br />(b) it represents the dumb-inertia end of a spectrum that also includes 'checks-and-balances', 'stability', and even 'conservatism'<br /><br />You say it "<i>could control 'normative' thought and behaviour quite invisibly</i>" - yes, that is absolutely right! It can, it does, and that (IMHO) is quite a large part of what conservatism is about: normative social forces that can be experienced as coercive (when you feel they are wrongly aligned). But, in their favour: sometimes (IMHO again) they exert a benign effect; and sometimes it is better that they coerce 'softly' than with a jackboot.<br /><br />As I conceive it, the sheer scale of the problem, therefore, is not just<br /><br />- how do we overcome these forces to make the changes we need?<br /><br />but also<br /><br />- <i>how do we do this without recourse to methods that will later bring down the whole edifice on our heads?</i><br /><br />For the avoidance of doubt, I agree we must try! It takes rare political genius, however, and probably also good fortune, to score lasting, non-phyrric victories in this battle. (yes, CU, saw your post this morning!)<br /><br />I realise this whole passage could be seen as an excuse for doing nothing. (My response would be to show you my battle-scars!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-50683815123877743462007-02-03T04:48:00.000+00:002007-02-03T04:48:00.000+00:00Nick Drew, thank you for your stimulating ideas.
...Nick Drew, thank you for your stimulating ideas.<br /><br />Let us go back to the title of this thread "A fire Raging in Islington" and juxtapose that blistering headline with the supposedly benign and etherial forces that render our elected representatives so impotent.<br /><br />Are you really sure about this ?<br /><br />Pretty dire consequences for something so haphazard, don't you think ?<br /><br />You'd ahve thought someone would put it right by now, don't you think ?<br /><br />What benign force would so consistently draw politics to the left of the political spectrum that Tory grass-root supporters no longer identify with their party. That mainstream party coffers are near bankruptcy and voting turnouts are at all time lows ?<br /><br />This is the message from the people that the situation is no longer acceptable.<br /><br />What will it be ? Council tax, road charging, uncontrolled immigration, prisoner releases ...<br />a range of incendiary issues that could tip the disenfranchised over the edge. ('tis why I am here)<br />At some point soon I am going to be unable to continue paying the government their increases and the thought is already crossing my mind "Oh well, what are they going to do - send me to prison ?" <br /><br />I'd like you to reconsider my tale about the typist. This woman had so much power that a single scowl would have burly coppers jittery. She would walk into the mess room where chaps would be watching the cricket and just turn the TV over to watch Neighbours. She's still there - I'm not.<br /><br />Now project that image onto Parliament - make these 'typists' into all sorts of graduate bods essential to the workings of government at whatever level and permanently resident (unlike most politicians) and you have a pretty powerful force at work. Something that could control 'normative' thought and behaviour quite invisibly - this is more obvious at the BBC.<br /><br />The alternative is to suggest that we're sleep-walking into it. But in view of the shrill cries of the public through the often disparaged tabloids (they're all we've got) I find that hard to believe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-4826629821198298952007-02-02T23:32:00.000+00:002007-02-02T23:32:00.000+00:00Others I will read tommorowOthers I will read tommorowNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-36482542806067631372007-02-02T23:27:00.000+00:002007-02-02T23:27:00.000+00:00Nick, I have thought of that final scene in animal...Nick, I have thought of that final scene in animal farm often recently..<br />I see no problem with elites and I am distrustful of populism. In fact populism is precisely what an elite might use to keep everyone in their place. I want people to want and believe they can aspire to an elite but unlike CU I also want a place for those who fail or who are not up to it . It must be acceptable for people to respect other people who are better than them . Sometimes this will involve saluting the uniform not the man but if we can approximate to a meritocracy it would clearly be preferable . At the moment what have we got ?<br />We have a whole group of people who say , loudly , I `m as good as anyone , but in their hearts they know they aren’t.<br />It s bit waffle-some but what I would like is something like the way school sport used to be .<br />Everyone has a chance and everyone learns to rub along in a team. You realise that for the team to succeed you have to work around your most naturally gifted players and you learn not to resent that. Equally the stars know they need everyone lese knowing their role and if you are not a star that doesn’t mean your life , your game , is irrelevant. There is a place for those who won’t go along with the team ethos and you also learn that unusual views can be the most effective. Its not as simple as the CU everyone can win idea. Everyone can have place but NOT but not reducing everyone to the same level. Some will win and some will lose, we all have a place. CU is right that this sort of robust self belief is destroyed by molly coddling but self belief has to have a real outlet not an illusory one.<br /><br />When I became a man, St. Paul wrote, "I put childish things behind me<br /><br />We do not have to become champions , we must become men, and women. Now we seem to have the worst of all worldsNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-5593442159966472812007-02-02T23:06:00.000+00:002007-02-02T23:06:00.000+00:00Mr.Slicker, I wanted to leap on your comment earli...Mr.Slicker, I wanted to leap on your comment earlier but was engaged in filthy sordid commerce. So , you are accusing me of having a socialist agenda are you ?.It isn’t a question of money , it’s a question of aspirations , world view , expectations and all the thousand things that make you what you are and limit what you do. A lot of those things are called in a nebulous way class. You must accept that there are severe limits on people born to certain backgrounds unless you believe that the denizens of Surrey are genetically superior to those of say Wales. They are not . Exceptions are not the rule and if we are thinking about what to do it is no use imagining that everyone is an exception..<br /><br />Will ,self confidence , balls !It is the prison we make for ourselves , encourage d by the state that is the real problem. The state is only accentuating a rigor vitae that naturally takes root.<br /><br />For this reaons I have always had the view that there is a role for the state in breaking the class monopoly of access and knowledge. The most obvious way in which it can do that is to provide an academic escape route. Grammar schools served that purpose.<br />In a sense I agree with you and I feel that the benefits and subsidy culture erode exactly the qualities you are looking for . I am only saying don`t underestimate the ties that bind people to where they come from. Don`1t underestimate the interest of elites in keeping those ties in place and be prepared to listen to the state assisting access in the way it regulates markets.<br /><br />OR better still allowing sub state groups to form communities that assist each other .<br />Well I know what I mean , I may have another go at this ….Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-516302020256303642007-02-02T22:43:00.001+00:002007-02-02T22:43:00.001+00:00Ellee ,I am certainly not trying to be anything li...Ellee ,I am certainly not trying to be anything like those glamorous people or indeed your good self.I `m a friendly soul I hope but under no illusions about myself.<br /><br />..and sometimes I`m not even friendly....Often , in factNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-36368538449621562892007-02-02T22:43:00.000+00:002007-02-02T22:43:00.000+00:00Ellee ,I am certainly not trying to be anything li...Ellee ,I am certainly not trying to be anything like those glamorous people or indeed your good self.I `m a friendly soul I hope but under no illusions about myself.<br /><br />..and sometimes I`m not even friendly....Often , in factNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-77777197816923245602007-02-02T20:06:00.000+00:002007-02-02T20:06:00.000+00:00My goodness, you are going great guns and have got...My goodness, you are going great guns and have got almost 50 comments, you are in the Iain and Guido camp now.<br />I did post a comment yesterday asking why you don't move away to a more civilised area but can't find it, maybe your comment box was rattling with too much activity. Have a great weekend, I assume you won't be going back to church!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35649541.post-17954071117021067162007-02-02T19:46:00.000+00:002007-02-02T19:46:00.000+00:00Kev said "we all know the type of manifesto that w...Kev said "we all know the type of manifesto that would secure a landslide election victory in this country and secure a true mandate for the incoming government ...<br /><br />... why don't we ever get this manifesto offered to us ?<br /><br />Perhaps this is why I feel that there is a permanence to the very machinery of government"<br /><br />Yes, good point. Hmn.<br /><br />I get the analogy. You're talking about the Civil Service. I'm just wondering if there's also something akin to the BBC bias? I'm searching for how to communicate my point and not getting it quite right. Will have to think a bit on this issue.<br /><br />By the way I'm having trouble publishing posts and just when you think any old nonsense won't publish cause you've lost the stuff you actually thought about the damn thing works! Such is life.Philipahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440234602399886097noreply@blogger.com